The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo)
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: Battles or how to win....
Thanks for the advice
I will attach Art div to front HQ
I'm cautious about massive attacks all along the front. It can result in a bloodbath and loss of morale. Currently I'm selecting my targets to get more than 50% of victories. Last week I got 9 "retreat" and 4 "held". Bobo did 1 successfull counterattack
I will attach Art div to front HQ
I'm cautious about massive attacks all along the front. It can result in a bloodbath and loss of morale. Currently I'm selecting my targets to get more than 50% of victories. Last week I got 9 "retreat" and 4 "held". Bobo did 1 successfull counterattack
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
May 1943
Turn 102, 27th may 1943
Still mud in several parts of the front.
Some activity between Kaluga and Kursk
Bryansk
Pavel Belov's 2nd guard army pushes back Hans Hube's units! The german units were overconfident, even if the terrain was in favor of the defenders.
Kursk
2 pzd were commited to the defence... we failed despite 5000guns. the loss ratio 3/1 is acceptable.
Still mud in several parts of the front.
Some activity between Kaluga and Kursk
Bryansk
Pavel Belov's 2nd guard army pushes back Hans Hube's units! The german units were overconfident, even if the terrain was in favor of the defenders.
Kursk
2 pzd were commited to the defence... we failed despite 5000guns. the loss ratio 3/1 is acceptable.
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
RE: May 1943
Interesting that neither side lost very many tanks in the big battle near Kursk. If the 3-1 loss ratio is acceptable ... where do you draw the line? 4-1?
Losses and OOB
The 3/1 ratio on held results is a raw calculation based on my experience of the game:
- I have more than 200 HI / 300 ARM
- my pools are confortable (except manpower). I will post pictures once I get the turn back.
- the front is long, very long so "natural" attrition is rather strong and it's in my favor
- I cautiously pick my fights and actually get get 3 or 4 victories for a held. In a victory the loss ratio is 1/1
- the russian average CV is slowly climbing (NM + experience)
So I'm currently gaining in power and at the same time german army is still very strong but slowly weakening (except AFV). Thus I'm rather confident on the long term.
- I have more than 200 HI / 300 ARM
- my pools are confortable (except manpower). I will post pictures once I get the turn back.
- the front is long, very long so "natural" attrition is rather strong and it's in my favor
- I cautiously pick my fights and actually get get 3 or 4 victories for a held. In a victory the loss ratio is 1/1
- the russian average CV is slowly climbing (NM + experience)
So I'm currently gaining in power and at the same time german army is still very strong but slowly weakening (except AFV). Thus I'm rather confident on the long term.
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
RE: Losses and OOB
Raw numbers wise the Soviets can afford about 100k losses a turn the Germans about 20k without real attrition.
So just raw numbers the Soviets can afford 3/4:1 exchange rates and still be staying good vs the Germans numbers wise. Its why even attacking and losing as the Soviets can be worthwhile...also as you get later in the war the German CV lowers and Soviets increases....thus the more attrition you cause to the German army prior to the big NM swings the better as it weakens them much more quickly in the late game.
Right now the German army in this game is still very strong, 2:1 is acceptable in total numbers for the German player. 2.5 to 3:1 is where the game begins to solidly swing into Soviets favor and makes breakthroughs and encirclement possible 43+ on is what I saw.
So just raw numbers the Soviets can afford 3/4:1 exchange rates and still be staying good vs the Germans numbers wise. Its why even attacking and losing as the Soviets can be worthwhile...also as you get later in the war the German CV lowers and Soviets increases....thus the more attrition you cause to the German army prior to the big NM swings the better as it weakens them much more quickly in the late game.
Right now the German army in this game is still very strong, 2:1 is acceptable in total numbers for the German player. 2.5 to 3:1 is where the game begins to solidly swing into Soviets favor and makes breakthroughs and encirclement possible 43+ on is what I saw.
RE: Losses and OOB
I have plenty of armaments or tanks (see below)
I can afford losing a lot of material but will try to spare my Manpower
I can afford losing a lot of material but will try to spare my Manpower
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
June 1943
Turn 103, 3rd june 1943
Mud, mud, mud....
A successfull assault and 10th guards army is 10 miles away from Bryansk
Surprisingly german losses are higher during the "held" than during the "retreat"
Mud, mud, mud....
A successfull assault and 10th guards army is 10 miles away from Bryansk
Surprisingly german losses are higher during the "held" than during the "retreat"
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
Orel is free!
Turn 104, 10th june 1943
Some parts of the front benefit of clear weather allowing the red army to free Orel. The first russian MCV reaches 4300! good sign for the future fights.
Offensive is on South of Voronejh
Some pressure in the Baku's area
And the OOB
Some parts of the front benefit of clear weather allowing the red army to free Orel. The first russian MCV reaches 4300! good sign for the future fights.
Offensive is on South of Voronejh
Some pressure in the Baku's area
And the OOB
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
RE: June 1943
In my game versus Pelton, i've had lots of mud in spring 44.
I think I had one clear for each middle area where historical weather would give at least 3 clears.
I think I had one clear for each middle area where historical weather would give at least 3 clears.
RE: June 1943
same thing for me. I don't know if it's only bad dice rolls or new algorithmORIGINAL: BrianG
In my game versus Pelton, i've had lots of mud in spring 44.
I think I had one clear for each middle area where historical weather would give at least 3 clears.
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
Clear weather!
Turn 106, 24th june 1943
Clear weather all along the front line allows to bite the german line.
- the first objective is to win the "dig in" race in order not to face level3 entrenchment
- the second is to increase the length of the front line . I can create new units, the german cannot. And Bobo has to hold a line from Leningrad to Astrakhan! that's too much for an efficient defence on the medium term
- each breach will be exploited with tank corps. I can afford loosing several of these units. I have plenty of tanks and they don't represent lot's of manpower
Novgorod
2 german infs expelled from the swamps west of Novgorod
Bryansk
5 retreats and one held. and to illustrate a typical fight with the reserve activations.
Voronejh
3 victories in this area
Don bend
Lucky result with high losses
Clear weather all along the front line allows to bite the german line.
- the first objective is to win the "dig in" race in order not to face level3 entrenchment
- the second is to increase the length of the front line . I can create new units, the german cannot. And Bobo has to hold a line from Leningrad to Astrakhan! that's too much for an efficient defence on the medium term
- each breach will be exploited with tank corps. I can afford loosing several of these units. I have plenty of tanks and they don't represent lot's of manpower
Novgorod
2 german infs expelled from the swamps west of Novgorod
Bryansk
5 retreats and one held. and to illustrate a typical fight with the reserve activations.
Voronejh
3 victories in this area
Don bend
Lucky result with high losses
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
RE: June 1943
Pelton believes this is how it is. Thus algorithm wins. More mud than normal.same thing for me. I don't know if it's only bad dice rolls or new algorithm
July 1943, first breach
Turn 107, 1st july 1943
Focus on 2 sectors with very positive results
Bryansk
6 german inf divs are isolated. Of course they will be delivered but it's a good sign!
Don bend
A 30 miles advance through the german lines
Focus on 2 sectors with very positive results
Bryansk
6 german inf divs are isolated. Of course they will be delivered but it's a good sign!
Don bend
A 30 miles advance through the german lines
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
RE: July 1943, first breach
The good news: you've got the initiative and you are forcing him to react to you.
The bad news: some of your tank corps are going to get mauled, especially the one in the last picture right next to all the SS units.
You need to talk the Germans into a massive offensive at Kursk. [:'(]
The bad news: some of your tank corps are going to get mauled, especially the one in the last picture right next to all the SS units.
You need to talk the Germans into a massive offensive at Kursk. [:'(]
RE: July 1943, first breach
Ya I agree I think the Germans are in position to give many of those soviet units a good kicking if the German player has any initiative/offensive mind set lol.....he should rout a fair number of those soviet tank corps.
RE: July 1943, first breach
Sure that those Advanced tank corps will be badly beaten or even trapped. But I use them as expendable units to win the "dig in" race.
I'm more cautious with my guard tank corps and mech corps. They have a CV > 15 and can be used for hasty attacks once a beakthrough appears.
My plans early may were as shown below but I have to be adaptable due to the strong german lines I'm facing. For example I proved to be unable to achieve a Pocket as big as expected near Bryansk. But now the german line is weakening. I'm facing in most parts level 2 entrenchment and lot's of german inf divs in hot spots have far less than 15k men. Time is on my side!
k
I'm more cautious with my guard tank corps and mech corps. They have a CV > 15 and can be used for hasty attacks once a beakthrough appears.
My plans early may were as shown below but I have to be adaptable due to the strong german lines I'm facing. For example I proved to be unable to achieve a Pocket as big as expected near Bryansk. But now the german line is weakening. I'm facing in most parts level 2 entrenchment and lot's of german inf divs in hot spots have far less than 15k men. Time is on my side!
k
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
- smokindave34
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:56 am
RE: July 1943, first breach
Your tank corps do not have anywhere to retreat to after they are counter attacked by the SS because you have three units in every hex. Consider keeping a strong rifle corps (or two) in those spots instead that will allow your tank corps a spot to retreat into and minimize your losses.
Nice to see a game into '43. The vast majority of AAR's end in 1941. Thanks for sharing!
Nice to see a game into '43. The vast majority of AAR's end in 1941. Thanks for sharing!
RE: July 1943, first breach
You're right I should have given a retreat path but having played Bobo more than 100 turns, I know that he is more keen on encirclement and then surrendering than direct routing. He did it against Cav corps during winter 41/42 and achieved several pockets during summer 42 and even winter 42/43.ORIGINAL: smokindave34
Your tank corps do not have anywhere to retreat to after they are counter attacked by the SS because you have three units in every hex. Consider keeping a strong rifle corps (or two) in those spots instead that will allow your tank corps a spot to retreat into and minimize your losses.
I always bet he will try an encirclement
Thanks to Bobo. Playing the defensive part of the game isn't always fun for the german side.Nice to see a game into '43. The vast majority of AAR's end in 1941. Thanks for sharing!
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
July 1943
Turn 108, 8th july 1943
Clear weather is on and heavy fights are occuring. I need to bleed the german army during this summer campaign!
Bryansk
As scheduled, 3 units are trapped but losing 10k men an 200 AFV is a insignificant loss... especially as they will return for free.
An overview of the main fight area. The retreat/held ratio is fine.
Don Bend
Proud of the retreat of this powerful german stack
Baku
Slow advance, but advance!
And a view of the OOB at the beginning and at the end of my turn. Tactical bombing is used intensively
Clear weather is on and heavy fights are occuring. I need to bleed the german army during this summer campaign!
Bryansk
As scheduled, 3 units are trapped but losing 10k men an 200 AFV is a insignificant loss... especially as they will return for free.
An overview of the main fight area. The retreat/held ratio is fine.
Don Bend
Proud of the retreat of this powerful german stack
Baku
Slow advance, but advance!
And a view of the OOB at the beginning and at the end of my turn. Tactical bombing is used intensively
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4