This forum is terrible and unwelcoming

[nashvillen]

He could always just change the title and the first post to "Ignore this" and watch the fun...

[CaptBeefheart]

I need to chime in here and note that this is the most responsive and helpful game forum I've ever come across. I think asking a question with some humility and a description of prior research, however minimal, works wonders. Some of the commenters can be a bit rude, but hey, those are just pixels, right? Not sticks and stones.

I've asked questions on a couple of Steam forums and it's crickets chirping for a response. As the Gorn points out, this forum here is the most active one at Matrix and probably one of the most active in all of computer gaming.

Cheers,
CC

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Are you talking about "world in flames"?....GP

Yes.

[Auchinleck]

[:-]

[Yaab]

Timotheus, I do not get that thing about the forum design. Have you noticed how printed books are stuck in 1500s design? Rows of black text on white background? Even the e-books? Seems no-one came up with a better design for transmitting tons of information in written form. The Matrix forum seems functional to me.

Now, I agree that game of such complexity as WITP:AE needs an in-game tutorial. The tutorial is mentioned in the game manual, but for whatever reason it didn't make it into the final game. The forum's advice has been to start playing the Coral Sea scenario from both sides, read the manual and ask questions in the forums. The "search" function is working and anything written (other then caustic "No" posts) by user called Alfred is worth saving for reference, especially his guides like supply or repair ones.

As for Distant Worlds, this game forum has military and ex-military men, with family histories touching the Pacific conflict. Expect the folks with real life experience to correct any of your ideas about the Pacific war and military operations. You won't find it in a science-fiction game, which is a fantasy and can have teenage, armchair experts with no real-life experience.

Actually, you have it easy now. Two, three years ago, your newbie question could have been whacked by an irritated Symon. How time flies.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: wdolson
This game has one of the toughest learning curves of any game out there, even with help. It takes a while just to get competent and I'm not sure it can be mastered.

How would you compare this game's learning curve and ability to play competently to that of MWiF?

warspite1

They are both complex games, they both need time to understand let alone master. From an intellectual point of view, if you can understand MWIF then you can certainly get to grips with WITP-AE.

So learning curve is not an 'issue'. More importantly these two are very, very different games and so its not just a question of the learning curve, its what you want from a game and what you find fun.

FWIW I would say (and of course this depends how much spare time you can devote) if you were to set out to learn WITP-AE then you would need to give MWIF a miss for a good while in order to really get under the hood of this game.

That said there are the smaller scenarios. These will give you a feel for what WITP-AE is about and how it plays in a managed way before taking the plunge.

Personally I do not regret buying WITP-AE - and I still hope to come back to it when I retire.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

In the USA and Western Europe, anytime someone states something challenging and/or controversial there are usually two reactions:
1) He's a troll, ignore what he wrote, usually followed by
2) Ban him and delete what he wrote.

Pathetic.

warspite1

Well I wrote a lengthy considered piece that neither referred to you as a troll or suggested a ban. I simply disagreed with you and stated why.

But then if you bothered to read the post you would know this. Clearly you have no wish to further 'reasonable' argument but, having failed to get most people suitably riled you are now simply upping the ante by repeating what you've said (and have been challenged on) and then adding ridiculous comments like this:

yeah, when in an American company an exec/employee says to expect something to happen as they are "working on it".... it will happen...after 25 years or so).

Ah... good one. That says much about what you are trying to achieve here.

I expect a comeback of "troll" and "ban" - par for the course, when there are no arguments and dealing with a modern western "man".

But as said above, just as you have made your feelings clear, so have others. You accuse people of poor behaviour but are exhibiting the same yourself.

A lot of this stems from matrix forums - they are godawful and their design is the worst I've seen.

Okay - I hear you. Your opinion. I have many times said on the General Discussion forum how much I like the Matrix layout and have asked them not to change it. My opinion.

So, zero effort to grow and help the community, those who do their efforts are lost in the ether and hard to find.

So you completely ignore how successful this game has been - how popular the forum is and repeat a charge that has already been dealt with and shown to be wrong.

The "old guard" does zero effort to help their hobby (i.e. WITPAE).

This game is an incredibly complicated one. But whereas in other games/hobbies people who love said games/hobbies make every effort to promote, entice, and then to help new "recruits" (so to speak), here there is none of that.

As said, just plain wrong. But please provide examples.

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

People always left when I entered a bar and wanted to talk with em [:(] They said behind my back "not this guy again wanna talk about his latest carrier battle in some BS computer game" [:@]

That is a common problem for denizens of this forum...

[bradfordkay]

"There was some effort at tutorials/guides.... but that happened roughly 10-15 years ago.

What is needed is actual guides and tutorials, ones that are hopefully after the year A.D. 2000! "

The use of hyperbole is all fine and dandy in many arguments, but when you are asking for help to use it in such a manner is counter productive. The game system wasn't even out in the year 2000. Uncommon Valor (the first - test - game released with this game system) came out in 2002, War in the Pacific two years later and - IIRC - Admiral's Edition came out in 2010. The latter was the work of a dedicated group of forum members who felt that the classic War in the Pacific could be improved upon. They made a proposal to Matrix who gave them the "go ahead" and Admiral's Edition is the result. So when you talk about how "unhelpful" this forum and its members are, you are ignoring the fact that this particular game is the product of that forum.

Matrix has an employee who is tasked with continuing to update and patch this game six years after its release. Name another computer gaming company that offers such support for a game after that many years without a new release that demands payment from the users.

Buy the game, read the manual and try it out. If you like serious historical detail in your gaming this game is impossible to beat. If you have questions about the actual gameplay you will get answers.

[LoBaron]

Timotheus, I do agree with you that many of the essential guides and the tutorial vidos are old (not to say ancient). Also - if you are of the unpatient type - they are scattered accross the forums in a more or less unorganized fashion.

You need to take into account this game was released 7 years ago, by a small group of enthusiasts (Henderson group) which had to fight to even get the most superficial access to source code. Most of the stuff they had to do on the surface. Said source code was done for the original WitP in 2004, and is based on an even older one.

You are accusing a game that is ancient of being old. I do not see the point here.

If you look beneath the surface you will find everything you need to understand how WitP works on this very forum. And if you do, you will notice that what is presented here is waaaaay beyond what you with your very limited knowledge call

This game is an incredibly complicated one. But whereas in other games/hobbies people who love said games/hobbies make every effort to promote, entice, and then to help new "recruits" (so to speak), here there is none of that.

The "old guard" does zero effort to help their hobby (i.e. WITPAE).

Their effort, such as it is, is limited to deigning to a reply to a forum post asking for help on a specific topic... or making a joke about it. Or putting down a complete newbie who does a youtube series to promote the game (granted, he was terrible, but he is learning and actually not making many mistakes now).

There was some effort at tutorials/guides.... but that happened roughly 10-15 years ago.

...statements which actually I find personally insulting.

You are comparing this to a comparably simple game (Distant Worlds) that was INITIALLY released in 2011 (and then put everybody off with yearly 'expansions') and was finally rereleased again as DW Universe in 2014 and transitioned to steam in 2015 (IIRC).

Do you notice the difference?

Anyways, in case you are unhappy with the way things are structured, how about you start learning the ropes, collect the information required, and then start putting tutorial videos on youtube that match your expectations? You know, all information available here and all tutorials and how to guides provided here have been done for free.


Finally, over all those years I have repeatedly been confronted with characters who firmly believe that because the opinion they are voicing meets heavy opposition it must mean that they are stating 'something challenging and/or controversial'. I find this rather funny, because chances are it rather means that what they are stating is simply incorrect or clumsily formulated.

The same people are usually of the type that find it very difficult to correctly identify and interprete cause/effect patterns which is a prerequisite to be successful at playing WitP.

[Gandalf]

From his other thread:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

Well, I didn't buy the game, I am waiting for a serious sale.

Link to mods which help the AI please?

Edit: Also, I do not think I can do the the "live opponent" thing. Time commitment, life, gym, lawyering up, chicks, clubbin' and other assorted nonsense would get in the way.

Due to schedule, I would be able to binge on this game for a day or two, and then have to leave it alone for week(s).

Why are we continuing to respond to this troll? As you can see above, he doesn't even own the game. He was given some helpful answers re:AI in his other thread, YET after the fact, he came back here and wrote out more of his troll opinions. I think it's time we all just ignore the guy and let the thread die off into oblivion. It would help if the moderator(s) would just close it.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
You need to take into account this game was released 7 years ago, by a small group of enthusiasts (Henderson group) which had to fight to even get the most superficial access to source code. Most of the stuff they had to do on the surface. Said source code was done for the original WitP in 2004, and is based on an even older one.

Just FYI, we actually do have all the source code for the entire game. The reason some things didn't change wasn't because we didn't have the code, but changing it would have been a huge project. Sometimes the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Bill

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
You need to take into account this game was released 7 years ago, by a small group of enthusiasts (Henderson group) which had to fight to even get the most superficial access to source code. Most of the stuff they had to do on the surface. Said source code was done for the original WitP in 2004, and is based on an even older one.

Just FYI, we actually do have all the source code for the entire game. The reason some things didn't change wasn't because we didn't have the code, but changing it would have been a huge project. Sometimes the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Bill

Thanks for the FYI Bill, I stand corrected.

Quick question: Did access equal to permission to modify in any way you wanted as well? I always thought there were some pretty tight restrictions to that.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

Why are we continuing to respond to this troll? As you can see above, he doesn't even own the game. He was given some helpful answers re:AI in his other thread, YET after the fact, he came back here and wrote out more of his troll opinions. I think it's time we all just ignore the guy and let the thread die off into oblivion. It would help if the moderator(s) would just close it.

He may be a troll, or he may be someone who just got off on the wrong foot. That said, I do think you have a point and this thread has run it's course. I'm locking this.

Bill

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
You need to take into account this game was released 7 years ago, by a small group of enthusiasts (Henderson group) which had to fight to even get the most superficial access to source code. Most of the stuff they had to do on the surface. Said source code was done for the original WitP in 2004, and is based on an even older one.

ORIGINAL: wdolson
Just FYI, we actually do have all the source code for the entire game. The reason some things didn't change wasn't because we didn't have the code, but changing it would have been a huge project. Sometimes the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Bill

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
Thanks for the FYI Bill, I stand corrected.

Quick question: Did access equal to permission to modify in any way you wanted as well? I always thought there were some pretty tight restrictions to that.

We have free reign to do what we want with it. I've never had any personal contact with anybody at 2X3, but they seem to be done with this engine (this gleaned from interviews and quotes I've seen over the years). I came on board relatively late, but from what I understand nobody on the AE team had any contact with 2X3 one way or the other once the code was handed over.

We can't claim ownership of 2X3's code, or any of those other intellectual property things, but I've never been told we were limited in any of our changes. Any decisions to limit our changes were based on feasibility and time restrictions.

Bill