why the Range of torpedoes were not historical?

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Bullwinkle58
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RE: why the Range of torpedoes were not historical?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes it a well known case that one of Chikuma class cruiser was probably saved because the commander choose to jettison the torpedoes just before a bomb hit precisely in their place.

I was referring to loss of CA Chokai, Takao-class. One hit by a five inch shell and the mounted Long Lances exploded, taking out propulsion and steering, leaving the ship ripe to be sunk.
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DRF99
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RE: why the Range of torpedoes were not historical?

Post by DRF99 »

I found this on Axis History Forum:
Six Japanese cruisers were sunk due, at least in part, to fires and/or explosions among their oxygen torpedoes.

6 June 1942: Mikuma is hit by bombs, fire breaks out among the torpedoes, torpedoes explode, ship sinks. (Sister Mogami, also bombed that day, has already jettisoned her torpedoes and survives.)

11 October 1942: Furutaka hit by American naval gunfire at night, fires almost immediately break out among her torpedoes, illuminating the ship, apparently drawing more gunfire. Ship is sunk.

3 April 1943: Aoba is hit by bomb from a B-17, torpedoes explode, ship is beached to avoid total loss. Later salvaged.

25 October 1944: Mogami hit by two American 8-inch shells. Fire breaks out, she collides with Nachi (her third collision of the war), then her torpedoes explode. She is bombed and torpedoed again by American aircraft, and finally must be scuttled.

25 October 1944: Suzuya is missed by bombs, but fragments from near misses ignite fires among her torpedoes, torpedoes explode, ship sinks.

25 October 1944: Abukuma is hit by 3 bombs dropped by B-24s. Fires detonate 4 Type 93 torpedoes, ship sinks.

Who wants longer range torpedoes for the loss of 6 CA/CL?
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: why the Range of torpedoes were not historical?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

22 October 1944: Operation "SHO-I-GO"(Victory) - The Battle of Leyte Gulf:
CHOKAI sorties with Vice Admiral Kurita's First Mobile Striking Force, Force "A "(Center Force): BatDiv 1, CruDiv 4, CruDiv 5's MYOKO and HAGURO, DesRon 2's light cruiser NOSHIRO with DesDiv 2's DesDiv 2's HAYASHIMO, AKISHIMO, KIYOSHIMO, DesDiv 31's KISHINAMI, OKINAMI, ASASHIMO and DesDiv 32's FUJINAMI, NAGANAMI, HAMANAMI and destroyer SHIMAKAZE.
23 October 1944: The Battle of the Palawan Passage:
At 0633, Cdr (later Captain) David McClintock's USS DARTER (SS-227) sinks Vice Admiral Kurita's flagship ATAGO and damages TAKAO. Kurita and his staff are picked up by Cdr Mifune Toshiro's destroyer KISHINAMI. Vice Admiral Ugaki assumes temporary command of the Mobile Force. Meanwhile, at 0655, Cdr Bladen Claggett's USS DACE (SS-247) torpedoes MAYA. She sinks at 0705. At 1620, Kurita transfers to the YAMATO and resumes command. CHOKAI is undamaged. Force A is attacked by McClintock's DARTER
CHOKAI is the sole undamaged unit of CruDiv 4. Vice Admiral Kurita reassigns her to CruDiv 5.
24 October 1944:- The Battle of the Sibuyan Sea:
Force A endures 11 raids by over 250 aircraft of Task Force 38's USS ENTERPRISE (CV-6), ESSEX (CV-9), LEXINGTON (CV-16), INTREPID (CV-11), FRANKLIN (CV-13) and CABOT (CVL-28). Battleship MUSASHI is sunk, NAGATO hit, HARUNA damaged by near-misses and YAMATO is hit by bombs and down by the bow. MYOKO is hit by an aircraft torpedo. TONE is hit by bombs. CHOKAI is undamaged.
At 1530, Force A reverses course back through the Sibuyan Sea. At 1715, Force A reverses course again. Finally, at 2330, Force A enters the San Bernadino Strait in single file.
25 October 1944: The Battle off Samar:
At 0030, Force A exits the San Bernardino Strait and proceeds eastward until 0300, then turns SE towards Leyte Gulf.
At 0558, Force A opens fire at the U.S. Seventh Fleet's Task Group 77.4 escort carriers of "Taffy 3": USS ST. LO (CVE-63), WHITE PLAINS (CVE-66), KALININ BAY (CVE-68), FANSHAW BAY (CVE-70), KITKUN BAY (CVE-71) and GAMBIER BAY (CVE-73). Force A sinks GAMBIER BAY, destroyers HOEL (DD-533), JOHNSTON, (DD-557) and destroyer escort ROBERTS (DE-413).
TG 77. 4's aircraft damage CHIKUMA and SUZUYA and they later sink. TONE and HAGURO are also damaged.
At 0851, CHOKAI is taken under 5-inch fire from "Taffy 3" escort carriers and destroyer escort ROBERTS. She receives 6 shell hits to port side amidships, probably from escort carrier WHITE PLAINS (CVE-66).
At 0859, a secondary explosion, probably caused by CHOKAI's own torpedoes on deck, knocks out her engines and rudder. She shears out of formation to port and moves eastward.
After 0905, four TBM-1C "Avengers" from KITKUN BAY’s VC-5 attack a Japanese heavy cruiser (in all likelihood CHOKAI), already being engaged by WHITE PLAINS, using her 5-inch stern gun. Led by Cdr Richard L. Fowler, the "Avengers" score one 500-lb SAP bomb hit to the cruiser’s stern. The pilots observe how the crippled CHOKAI, billowing smoke, begins to slow down. [5]
At 0955, lookouts on cruiser TONE observe CHOKAI, dead in the water, 3.8 miles away.
At 1006, Kurita orders Cdr Matsuzaki Tatsuji's destroyer FUJINAMI to escort CHOKAI. She and FUJINAMI down an Avenger during an air attack. FUJINAMI removes the survivors including Captain Tanaka.
At 2148, FUJINAMI signals that she scuttled CHOKAI with torpedoes at 11-22N, 126-22E.
27 October 1944:
80 miles N of Iloilo. FUJINAMI, enroute to Colon, is redirected to a small island off Semirara to pick up the crew of HAYASHIMO. That afternoon, near the island, FUJINAMI is attacked by planes from ESSEX and sinks with all hands including CHOKAI's survivors.


http://www.combinedfleet.com/chokai_t.htm
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Dili
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RE: why the Range of torpedoes were not historical?

Post by Dili »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes it a well known case that one of Chikuma class cruiser was probably saved because the commander choose to jettison the torpedoes just before a bomb hit precisely in their place.

I was referring to loss of CA Chokai, Takao-class. One hit by a five inch shell and the mounted Long Lances exploded, taking out propulsion and steering, leaving the ship ripe to be sunk.

Sorry i was reinforcing your point with another situation but reading my post again appear i could have been disputing your cruiser ID


This is the situation i was referring to:
Battle of Santa Cruz(From Wiki)

On 26 October 1942, 250 miles (400 km) northeast of Guadalcanal, Rear Admiral Hiroaki Abe's task force launched seven floatplanes to scout south of Guadalcanal. They located the American fleet, and Abe followed with an attack which sank Hornet and damaged the battleship South Dakota and cruiser San Juan. However, Chikuma was attacked by a Douglas SBD Dauntless dive-bomber from Hornet, and quick thinking crewmen jettisoned her torpedoes seconds before a 500 lb (230 kg) bomb hit her starboard forward torpedo room. She was also hit by two other bombs, destroying one floatplane on the aircraft catapult. Chikuma suffered 190 killed and 154 wounded including Captain Komura.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: why the Range of torpedoes were not historical?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Dili

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes it a well known case that one of Chikuma class cruiser was probably saved because the commander choose to jettison the torpedoes just before a bomb hit precisely in their place.

I was referring to loss of CA Chokai, Takao-class. One hit by a five inch shell and the mounted Long Lances exploded, taking out propulsion and steering, leaving the ship ripe to be sunk.

Sorry i was reinforcing your point with another situation but reading my post again appear i could have been disputing your cruiser ID


This is the situation i was referring to:
Battle of Santa Cruz(From Wiki)

On 26 October 1942, 250 miles (400 km) northeast of Guadalcanal, Rear Admiral Hiroaki Abe's task force launched seven floatplanes to scout south of Guadalcanal. They located the American fleet, and Abe followed with an attack which sank Hornet and damaged the battleship South Dakota and cruiser San Juan. However, Chikuma was attacked by a Douglas SBD Dauntless dive-bomber from Hornet, and quick thinking crewmen jettisoned her torpedoes seconds before a 500 lb (230 kg) bomb hit her starboard forward torpedo room. She was also hit by two other bombs, destroying one floatplane on the aircraft catapult. Chikuma suffered 190 killed and 154 wounded including Captain Komura.

These fish may have been the best anti-cruiser weapon ever devised.
The Moose
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