DOD - what would it take???

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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tom730_slith
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DOD - what would it take???

Post by tom730_slith »

What would it take to make Days of Decision available? I know that money and time would be the most daunting factors, but does anyone out there who does programming have an idea?
Would ADG be amenable to the idea? Has any prep work already been done?
I'm wondering if it could be produced as DLC available for purchase or as a new venture direct from ADG or just as an unofficial "super-mod" project???

Any thoughts? Would crowd-funding be an option to get it started? Maybe raise enough to finance the Spanish Civil War as a Pre-quel?
I'm not rich but I'd be willing to throw some money into a project like that.

Any ideas?
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Neilster
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Neilster »

Given that MWiF has taken, not counting Chris Marinacci's contribution, 13 or so years, my guess is a long time.

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michaelbaldur
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by michaelbaldur »

Days of Decision is basic an entire different game. new map, new units, new relations, new rules.

so I doubt it.
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Centuur
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Centuur »

Neilster got it right. Time would be the real culprit here...
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tom730_slith
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by tom730_slith »

Oh well. I'm 62 now so time is not necessarily on my side.[;)] I may still be around, may still be playing computer games, but not sure an investment on my part would be worth the money.
I guess MWIF allows for a lot of options and even some - like a Franco willing to join the Pact of Steel at the fall of France - can be managed by carefully balanced DOW by both sides. For example, Germany DOW on a couple South American countries or maybe Persia to balance out a British or Soviet DOW against Spain.
Anyone have any experience trying this? Franco seemed tempted at the famous meeting with Hitler, but demanded too much from Germany for joining in the war. Perhaps a rule requiring including all Spanish units in the force pool and requiring the Axis to build those units first when they become available, plus requiring actions by the Axis to occupy and defend the Canary islands and Spanish Morocco asap.
Anyone try something like this?
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Orm
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Orm »

Franco seemed tempted at the famous meeting with Hitler, but demanded too much from Germany for joining in the war.
So far I have thought that Franco wanted to stay out if it but didn't want to offend or insult Hitler by outright refusing to join. Hence the high demands.
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Centuur
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: Orm
Franco seemed tempted at the famous meeting with Hitler, but demanded too much from Germany for joining in the war.
So far I have thought that Franco wanted to stay out if it but didn't want to offend or insult Hitler by outright refusing to join. Hence the high demands.

That was exactly the way he behaved. Franco didn't believe in an Axis victory in the first place, not even after the fall of France. And Spain was tired after the civil war too. The country was a total mess in 1940 with war damages far larger than in France after the German Blitzkrieg there...
I believe that only a CW DoW on Portugal would have made him active on the Axis side in 1940...
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warspite1
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Orm
Franco seemed tempted at the famous meeting with Hitler, but demanded too much from Germany for joining in the war.
So far I have thought that Franco wanted to stay out if it but didn't want to offend or insult Hitler by outright refusing to join. Hence the high demands.

That was exactly the way he behaved. Franco didn't believe in an Axis victory in the first place, not even after the fall of France. And Spain was tired after the civil war too. The country was a total mess in 1940 with war damages far larger than in France after the German Blitzkrieg there...
I believe that only a CW DoW on Portugal would have made him active on the Axis side in 1940...
warspite1

I recommend Franco and Hitler (Payne). Franco wasn't as stupid as Mussolini - in fact he was more like Stalin in his dealings with the Fuhrer - but he fully realised that a victory for Hitler would be the only way to enable Spain to return to greatness at the expense of the British and French, a victory he fully expected would happen.

As you say, the country was a mess after the civil war and the need for German help was more than Hitler could provide - but was genuine.

Even a DoW on Portugal would not be sufficient without Hitler's commitment to provide troops for the defence of the Iberian Peninsular and North Africa. Something Hitler (for obvious reasons) could not do.
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Viktor_Kormel_slith
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Viktor_Kormel_slith »

Payne is a good historian but his theories about Franco are old and not commonly accepted. Today is clear that Franco was able to join the war for the correct prize (basically a lot of supplies, modern weapons and French Morocco) but Hitler was thinking in Barbarossa at the moment of Hendaya Meeting an he never though seriously fight for the Mediterranean front. So Hitler decided that the prize was too high. Whe the things get worst for the axis, Franco, a politic oportunist, just changed his propaganda and built the legend about his meeting with Hitler. Yet nowdays, there are people in Spain that believes his lies but the truth is that was Hitler who decided.
Sorry, for my bad english! "Wiffing" since 1990 to the tomb!
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Viktor_Kormel

Payne is a good historian but his theories about Franco are old and not commonly accepted. Today is clear that Franco was able to join the war for the correct prize (basically a lot of supplies, modern weapons and French Morocco) but Hitler was thinking in Barbarossa at the moment of Hendaya Meeting an he never though seriously fight for the Mediterranean front. So Hitler decided that the prize was too high. Whe the things get worst for the axis, Franco, a politic oportunist, just changed his propaganda and built the legend about his meeting with Hitler. Yet nowdays, there are people in Spain that believes his lies but the truth is that was Hitler who decided.
warspite1

Well old does not make them necessarily wrong and I am not sure I understand the Hitler decided comment?

Also I think its a little more complicated than that. Not least the fact that there were three southern European powers Hitler needed to keep on side. Fact is, even if Barbarossa were not his raison d'etre, Hitler simply could not placate all of Vichy, Spain and Italy at the same time. At best he could manage two (and that would mean kicking Vichy into touch) - with all the headaches involved in subduing and then garrisoning French North Africa and Dakar - and relying on a worn out Spain and the Italians......
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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Viktor_Kormel_slith
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Viktor_Kormel_slith »


(Well old does not make them necessarily wrong ....)

I mean old historical theories not obviously from an old man [:D], here in Spain, Franco´s political actions have studied deeply in the last 20 years and most of the historians agree about Hendaya and its circumstances.

(...and I am not sure I understand the Hitler decided comment?)

Sorry for my english, I wanted to say if Hitler had wanted Spain in the war (like some german generals) Spain had join the war but really, like you say, he prefered to placate Vichy, not involucrate too much in the south flank and crush USSR. In his mind, after sovietic fall, England had to sign peace. That was his master plan after fall of France.

(Also I think its a little more complicated than that. Not least the fact that there were three southern European powers Hitler needed to keep on side. Fact is, even if Barbarossa were not his raison d'etre, Hitler simply could not placate all of Vichy, Spain and Italy at the same time. At best he could manage two (and that would mean kicking Vichy into touch) - with all the headaches involved in subduing and then garrisoning French North Africa and Dakar - and relying on a worn out Spain and the Italians......)

I agree.


Sorry, for my bad english! "Wiffing" since 1990 to the tomb!
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by tom730_slith »

What a bonus to have a person who lives in Spain chime in!
If Hitler had gone with a full-out Mediterranean strategy instead of going into Russia he would have been much better off. The challenges of keeping 3 potential allies (Italy, Vichy and Spain) all satisfied would have been pretty impossible of course. You can't give away French territory to Italy (or Spain) and keep Vichy as an ally!
But, consider this - Italy was already in, so the question would be which one gets in next? If it was Vichy the Axis suddenly has a lot more bases of strategic value in the Med, plus a pretty powerful navy, even after Mers-el Kabir. If it was Franco's Spain, a rather paltry navy but an INCREDIBLE route into Gibraltar and closing off the western Med! Plus, while the army was not big or powerful it could certainly be the basis for supporting the defense of the region, as well as helping take Portugal.
So adding either Spain or Vichy would have been a coup if the aim was dominating the Med!


btw - Don't worry about your English, I guarantee it is far better than the Spanish most Americans speak, including me! [:)]
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: tom730

What a bonus to have a person who lives in Spain chime in!
If Hitler had gone with a full-out Mediterranean strategy instead of going into Russia he would have been much better off. The challenges of keeping 3 potential allies (Italy, Vichy and Spain) all satisfied would have been pretty impossible of course. You can't give away French territory to Italy (or Spain) and keep Vichy as an ally!
But, consider this - Italy was already in, so the question would be which one gets in next? If it was Vichy the Axis suddenly has a lot more bases of strategic value in the Med, plus a pretty powerful navy, even after Mers-el Kabir. If it was Franco's Spain, a rather paltry navy but an INCREDIBLE route into Gibraltar and closing off the western Med! Plus, while the army was not big or powerful it could certainly be the basis for supporting the defense of the region, as well as helping take Portugal.
So adding either Spain or Vichy would have been a coup if the aim was dominating the Med!


btw - Don't worry about your English, I guarantee it is far better than the Spanish most Americans speak, including me! [:)]
warspite1

Well we know how it ends if he doesn't, so he can't be worse off [;)]

Whether a Mediterranean strategy would ultimately have succeeded is not certain but is certainly one of the great what-ifs.

Of course in reality Hitler's obsession with Lebensraum meant that that approach was not going to be adopted, but even if it were then, as per the above, it would bring its own problems to bear.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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tom730_slith
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by tom730_slith »

Agreed, Hitler was bound to lose given his declarations of war vs first the USSR and then the USA. The first one made an Axis victory unlikely and the second made an Axis defeat inevitable.
But the game is all about "what ifs," right? [:)]
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by tom730_slith »

I finally decided to buy "DOD III" and see how it works with WIF. Of course I only have the original WIF release as well as MWIF, so it could be awkward but what the heck?
Interestingly it was really tough to get a copy of DOD III. I ended up buying it from ADG so I'll be waiting for a while since I live on the east coast of the US!
I'm hoping that some of the changes that can come about using DOD III can be "finessed" in solitaire play by a DOW here and there.
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Twisted1 »

I was lucky enough to play test DoDIII and all I can say is WoW! While it does add some length to the game it is well worth it! If I ever get a chance to play WiF live again, DoD would be mandatory!
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by ajds »

I have played DoDIII/WiF many, many times. The map is of course in MWiF. Most of the counters are in MWiF. The political system is not present at all - this is a problem. But the biggest problem is DoD is a three-sided game (Fascists vs Democrats vs Communists) and WiF and MWiF are a two-sided game. The production system is somewhat different as well.

So, you could mod in the counters (if there is space). You could probably mod the production system (as it is mostly a production multiple change). But I see no easy way to mod in the political system, and I doubt the three-sided aspect (three phasing players) could be done with the current system.

Patton in Flames is a much better fit (as is America in Flames), and in fact could be modded in now as it would be counters, dates and disabling some WWII specific political stuff. Well, the variable minor influence setup might take some work, but I would suggest that politics in flames (leaders in flames? I forget - the one with the two pronged minor track) should be retrofitted to MWiF anyway to improve replayability.
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by brian brian »

The game might ship from inside the USA and arrive faster than you might think...
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by tom730_slith »

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The game might ship from inside the USA and arrive faster than you might think...

Didn't consider that - that would be great!
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RE: DOD - what would it take???

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

DoDIII is an awesome game! The problem is, as one of my FTF pals put it: Any player who begins WiF in a lessor position coming out of DoDIII will not be interested in starting a lengthy multi-month investment of time and money playing WiF. Computerizing DoDIII would solve that issue (as would holding players feet to the fire some how...monetary deposit/rewards, etc...). The three player feature probably has to be dealt with in some way...call it WiF1936.
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