Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Yes I have adapted my play to his style of attack. Which is not doing the job ATM. Against a different style I would apply a different formula.

He may well have assumed 2 PG thrown at Leningrad would guarantee early success and then head on to Moscow. A standard strategy I think these days. But against someone expecting it and prepared to shift a lot of guys north it's not a sure bet.

I agree time is running out for him. A mud turn now in this area would be very bad for him.

In the end I am loath to be too critical as playing German is so difficult until you reach a high level of proficiency.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

I should add, as others would no doubt know, that having a good insight in to the capabilities of the German war machine helps immensely in constructing a Soviet defense. This can only happen by playing both sides.

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Balou
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Balou »

That's why top notch axis gamers should be banned from playing as Soviets [:D]. Knowing what you know about axis capabilities can ruin Barbarossa and beyond.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet Turn 12 – 4th September 1941 (Clear)

We open the turn to find 6 Gd divisions created with more on the way, Stalin is pleased. As yet no mud at all.

The Janis line is still holding and is bolstered with 2 Gd promotions, with a 3rd more than qualifying. The hex with the two Gd’s has been attacked and defended successfully twice each turn since about turn 6.

On the Leningrad front the hun still persist with the right hook. Though now they are heading due north hugging the eastern side of Lake Ilmen. I shift some troops from the west of Lake Ilmen to flood the spearhead.

From the southern tip of the Leningrad battles to Orel we hold firm. The hitlerites content to inch towards Moscow and Tula. I will lose 4 Heavy industry in Bryansk. Evacuation of the Tula and Stalino Armament Factories is in full swing.

In the south a couple of wedge like penetrations force our withdrawal again. Kharkov is in danger now. It’s fall is inevitable.

The constant falling back in front of Kharkov has compromised the defence of the Dnepr bend. With the threat of having a whole front pinned with it’s back to the sea of Azov, we have to take the reluctant decision to withdraw to the Crimea and the bend itself.

Next turn will see the arrival of 2nd and 5th Panzer Divisions. They will be the number one target of our recon flights.


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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Close up of Leningrad.

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smokindave34
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by smokindave34 »

Didn't Manstein see the results of Pelton's attempt at a "right hook" against you. The "right hook" seldom works unless the Soviet is caught off guard by it. If the reds are given time to react they can bog down the panzers in terrain best suited for defense and not mobile operations. At this point I think Manstein would be better off transferring his panzers to the center and trying to punch a hole in your lines near Vyazma or Orel. There is no way he is grinding through that steel wall in front of AGN.
Things certainly look grim for the axis here.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

An interesting comparison, Pelton V MT Turn 12 (Right Hook).

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Hunter63
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Hunter63 »

Great defense MT, Germans are not even doing anything in south.

Your doing far better then historical.

The Russian side has been given so many gifts, German side nerfed and nerfed last few patches and Russian players are still whining for more.

I say learn to play better and stop bitching
Hunter63
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Hunter63 »

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Didn't Manstein see the results of Pelton's attempt at a "right hook" against you. The "right hook" seldom works unless the Soviet is caught off guard by it. If the reds are given time to react they can bog down the panzers in terrain best suited for defense and not mobile operations. At this point I think Manstein would be better off transferring his panzers to the center and trying to punch a hole in your lines near Vyazma or Orel. There is no way he is grinding through that steel wall in front of AGN.
Things certainly look grim for the axis here.

You have to leave 4-6 so that you can keep all those Russian units tied down, but yes transfer everything possible asap.

I am surpised at how poorly he is doing in south.
Aditia
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Aditia »

It is still mid summer and the German player has formed a continuous front for no reason.
The German player does not need a continuous line until the last turn of summer, playing like this dissipates all the strength the Wehrmacht has; also historically, there was no such thing during Barbarossa.

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STEF78
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by STEF78 »

You did a superb job but Manstein also did some mistakes. The german infantry isn't enough concentrated.

The key is, german inf breaks/soften the frontline, pzd finishes the job and then mot exploits.

And then the encirclement éliminates soviet units making further encirclements easier.

I'm turn 10 as russian against Bozo and I'm sure that you have 30/40 more inf divs than me...
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Sending 2 Panzer Groups in to the Valdai is the problem here. Great if it gets you Leningrad early, but can blow up in your face if you get stuck in a slugfest. Sean's move is delayed as is contemplating some major decisions. I am guessing he is tossing up whether to keep persisting with the right hook or not and as to where he sends 2nd and 5th Panzer.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet Turn 13 – 11th September 1941 (Clear)

Not a lot to report this turn. The strategic direction of the Hitlerites has not changed. The bash and barge around Lake Ilmen continues along with general grinding across the front. Very few withdrawals on our part. The odd counterattack here and there to push back some singular incursions. I now have 9 Gd divisions. 3 of them on the Janis front where the Finnish assaults continue unabated.

No sight of 2nd or 5th Panzer yet. If I were a betting man I would put my money on them turning up with PzGp 2 to assist with the AGC operations around Vyzama/Tula. They will surely appear somewhere next turn.

My airforce is quite rundown. Subsequently my bombing campaign against his spearheads is diminished. When we get to the mud turns I will totally reorganize it.


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Peltonx
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Peltonx »

Russia clearly still is over powered in an expert players hands.

People forget you and a dozen of other Russian experts were winning back in the day when all the fuel exploits were working.
You guys never lost record was like 100+ wins zero losses and the wins were very similar to this games front lines.

Only a handful of German players were even able to take Leningrad.

Your skills as Russia dispite the rust remain very good.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet Turn 14 – 18th Sept 1941 (Clear)

The Finns keep on with their attacks on the Janis line. We hold them again.

At Leningrad some change in direction and deployments from the hun. It would appear the Germans have withdrawn 3rd PG from the Leningrad battles and sent them south on a drive toward Rhzev. Meanwhile 4th PG keep up with the attacks around lake Ilmen but now are driving north to the west and east of the lake. They momentarily had a bridgehead over the Msta (east of lake Ilmen) but we threw them back (a lone SS Cav Reg). The western prong drives toward Novgorod.

2nd PG has been reinforced with mech units from AGS and is driving hard in the area between Vyzama and Tula.

Stavka has reacted to the German moves by sliding the armies east of Lake Ilmen south and railing an Army from the Valdai to the vicinity of Vyzama, and virtually all reinforcements have been sent in to the front to deal with the threats from 2nd and 3rd PG around the Moscow district.

In the south 1st PG keeps grinding east and surrounds Kharkov. A relieving attack with over 100K men thrown against a weak Mot Division fails to break the ring.

To end with some good news, more Guards Divisions have formed and we now have around 16 of them.


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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Forgot to add that I still have no clue as to the location of 2nd and 5th Panzer?? I have lost scores of recon a/c trying to locate them.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Forgot to add that I still have no clue as to the location of 2nd and 5th Panzer?? I have lost scores of recon a/c trying to locate them.

I don't think it matters at this point.

He has his tanks spread all across the front, when they should be in 1 or 2 panzer balls by now.

I have no idea what he is tring to do.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

We have the greatest minds in the Soviet Union working on what is going on in the OKH, but alas we still have no clue, perhaps the esteemed and renowned strategist the 'Hitman' could cast some light...
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet Turn 15 – 25th September 1941 (Clear)

Strange events transpire in the north, the Finns after attacking the Janis line incessantly since around T6 suddenly stop. And 4th PG halt their northern advance to swing south east and drive toward Lake Seliger into the heart of the Valdai. It would appear that Leningrad is off the Nazi radar for the time being.

In the centre 2nd and 3rd PG continue the drive toward Moscow trapping several Soviet formations. We are forced to give up some ground between Rhzev and Vyazma so we can straighten and thicken our lines.

We also are forced to give up ground between Tula and Kursk. The units remaining in this area just not strong enough to face the enemy as too many units have been drawn off to the north and south to cover other more critical fronts.

In the south Kharkov falls but the line from south of Kharkov to the Crimea remains relatively stable as it has for the past 3 or 4 turns.


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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Rest of the front.

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