China

[Macclan5]

Re: China

One of the most interesting AARs I read - involved massive move & combat in China.

The key learning nugget I recall was the players ability to get a few British Anti-Tank units into the theater via airlift IIRC.

Brits Anti-tank combined with Chinese staking was able to stop cold a number of thrusts or at least blunt the damage till 1944 ; then the supply house of cards came down in the land of the rising sun.

I apologize I search for it but I cannot recall the name - it was Allied perspective and it must be archived older. A very very important read.

Re Soviets:

I am too new to have experimented with the game.

If the Soviet OOB is relatively as powerful in prewar game compared to historical activation of the Soviets would be a huge strategic blunder

<both politically and militarily>.

1) The Ribentrop / Molotov non aggression treaty between Nazi Germany (Japan's erstwhile ally) neutered most potential gain

2) Opening another front for scarce developed resources with poor lines of transportation and a thin population density

3) The Battles of Khalkhin Gol on the Mongolian frontier circa 1938/39 demonstrated serious Japanese deficiency against Soviet armor and artillery. The Japanese losses were very likely exaggerated (50,000) by the Soviets for propaganda -- but never the less the battles demonstrated that Japan's army would require significant tactical superiority to attempt to break Soviets lines ; there is no realistic way that Japan could justify dozens of divisions even if attacking limited points for limited objectives.

Real casualties are speculated as 10000-15000 but in essence the fire power of Japanese forces was completely wiped out leaving a huge hole in the frontier. Imperial command was "not impressed" ; the Soviets did not recover quickly and did not pursue but could have.

4) The Soviets had the Japanese government, and cabinet highly penetrated with Comitern Moles (Spies) a'la the Anthony Blunt / Kim Philby generation (drafted to the cause in the 1920's and 1930's). The Soviets would have had ample opportunity for advance warning which would have further blunted tactical superiority in terms of troops / supplies / etc.

The Soviets are documented as having fed some intelligence to the Imperial Japanese government through out the war about American intentions; and negotiated the safety of their Lend Lease convoys through Japanese waters from the United States.

Now this is purely a hypothetical game - but if the Japanese player is interested in historical context - simply it would not have / could not have happened.

[wneumann]

The Hump is a good idea and every Allied player does it as soon as he can. But you have no transport planes to speak of for at least six months. Japan starts flush with transports. The Allies have a few dozen and can't make any. By the time I've gotten any numbers it's been down to Chungking and Chengtu hanging on for dear life.

+1. Allies do not have air transport in large numbers until 1944. There's also the matter of the departure base (Ledo) for Allied airlift over the Hump. Good news is that Ledo airfield can be expanded to size 9(6) allowing large numbers of transport planes to be based there with adequate aviation support and an Air HQ to operate them. Not so good news is getting large quantities of supply points into Ledo for transport to China. Ledo has a maximum draw of 2800 supply (not that bad on paper) but drawing that supply overland often involves considerable distances (from Calcutta, Bombay, Karachi, etc) so the rate at which supply points are moving overland to Ledo can be a constraint on how much supply is available in Ledo for operating transport planes and having cargo to load on them (along with other supply consumption occurring in Ledo). The key item here is having enough transport planes to carry a sufficient volume of supply points into China to have any effect - the planes simply aren't there before late 1943.

Losing control of China to the IJ is pretty bad as it relieves a LARGE number of units for other assignments.

Huge +1 to that. I'm playing against that in my PBEM (11/44). IJ Army outnumbers Allied ground forces in Pacific theatres and Burma in heavily fortified positions. Not to mention the IJ Army expanding with reinforcements from the Home Islands in 1944 (this separate from China).

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: wneumann

Losing control of China to the IJ is pretty bad as it relieves a LARGE number of units for other assignments.

Huge +1 to that. I'm playing against that in my PBEM (11/44). IJ Army outnumbers Allied ground forces in Pacific theatres and Burma in heavily fortified positions. Not to mention the IJ Army expanding with reinforcements from the Home Islands in 1944 (this separate from China).

How is this possible....almost all units are restricted - where do you get all the PPs from to buy them out? Or are only small units like arty, AA, engs meant here [&:]

[PaxMondo]

by '44 you have 2 full years of PP's ... 35,000 to have been spent. That buys a lot of units.

If you use the units hard, you can buy them cheap and the rebuild them. a common tactic.

[ny59giants]

AA - Early on I send two decent AA units to Ledo and then have them march, slowly, SE to get into China to add some AA support. The big AA Bde that comes into Colombo is bought out and sent to Ledo to protect my C-47s.

[jolly_pillager]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

AA - Early on I send two decent AA units to Ledo and then have them march, slowly, SE to get into China to add some AA support. The big AA Bde that comes into Colombo is bought out and sent to Ledo to protect my C-47s.

That's not really necessary...by late '44 Japan has more PP's than it could possibly use, even with transferring the bulk of the China Army to unrestricted commands.

Real savings would be in transferring an unrestricted HQ to China command and then transferring the China command guys to that HQ, but this is kind of pointless really. It's not like you don't have enough PP's.

In response to the OP, I feel that the Japanese player has enough power to really try for one big "beyond historical" push before having to start digging in...China, USSR, India or Australia. Of these 4 choices, China not only nets you the most actual gains (huge release of army units to fight the US with), it is also both the easiest to accomplish successfully and is the second hardest for the Allies to reverse later on (after the USSR).

Any realistic "run out the clock to win" strategy for Japan should look very hard at committing forces to China early.