Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End (No Pelton)
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End (No Pelton)
This will be my first AAR, and who better to play for the first AAR than Pelton himself...
The AAR will be somewhat different from most AAR's. If for nothing else then for me uploading zipfiles for each turn with the AAR info.
Pelton has agreed not to read this AAR and he will post his own delayed AAR in a few turns. I would humbly ask, that if you decide to read either AAr to refrain from posting in the other (no armchair generals here with all info available at their fingertips please.
The AAR will be somewhat different from most AAR's. If for nothing else then for me uploading zipfiles for each turn with the AAR info.
Pelton has agreed not to read this AAR and he will post his own delayed AAR in a few turns. I would humbly ask, that if you decide to read either AAr to refrain from posting in the other (no armchair generals here with all info available at their fingertips please.
- Attachments
-
- Turn1.zip
- (2.13 MiB) Downloaded 360 times
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
- EwaldvonKleist
- Posts: 2365
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Good first part of the AAR, will be very helpful when I one day use all my self discipline to start playing the soviet side [:D]
Good read.
Good read.
The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players
WitE2&RtW3 tester
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players
WitE2&RtW3 tester
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8851
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
ORIGINAL: Dinglir
This will be my first AAR, and who better to play for the first AAR than Pelton himself...
The AAR will be somewhat different from most AAR's. If for nothing else then for me uploading zipfiles for each turn with the AAR info.
Pelton has agreed not to read this AAR and he will post his own delayed AAR in a few turns. I would humbly ask, that if you decide to read either AAr to refrain from posting in the other (no armchair generals here with all info available at their fingertips please.
Good Luck Dinglir
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Good Luck Dinglir
Thanks. Going to need it I guess [:)]
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
- AlessandroD
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:29 pm
- Location: Italy
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Great AAR, congrats!
I agree about Fortified units but I'm not so sure for the AT brigades, early German tanks are vulnerable and they can be useful in the right place; I would save Motorised and Armored divisions until refitted and for later employment.
Air warfare: I like your thoughts and don't putting everything under the reserve, always had a bad feeling with this "tactic".
I'm not an experienced player therefore my suggestions can be wrong!
In general, very nice write-up [:)]
Subscribed!
Question: your Excel is very good, do you have the German equivalent or something similar?
I agree about Fortified units but I'm not so sure for the AT brigades, early German tanks are vulnerable and they can be useful in the right place; I would save Motorised and Armored divisions until refitted and for later employment.
Air warfare: I like your thoughts and don't putting everything under the reserve, always had a bad feeling with this "tactic".
I'm not an experienced player therefore my suggestions can be wrong!
In general, very nice write-up [:)]
Subscribed!
Question: your Excel is very good, do you have the German equivalent or something similar?
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Your study and detailed analysis is impressive. Good Luck, Kill Germans!
RKhan
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
ORIGINAL: AlessandroD
Question: your Excel is very good, do you have the German equivalent or something similar?
I do have an Axis version of my spreadsheet.
However, I have decide to keep it private until I get around to doing my first Axis AAR (probably when my game vrs Pelton is over).
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
- AlessandroD
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:29 pm
- Location: Italy
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
No problem at all, thanks anyway [:)]
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn two is up.
- Attachments
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- Turn2.zip
- (2.76 MiB) Downloaded 190 times
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Props for putting in this effort to make a readable AAR, nice change of pace from screenshots that are larger than 1900x1200
Please know that it is very much enjoyed!
Good luck in the game and you are inspiring me to have a go at Soviet side of things
Please know that it is very much enjoyed!
Good luck in the game and you are inspiring me to have a go at Soviet side of things
- AlessandroD
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:29 pm
- Location: Italy
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Nice again and nice avatar too, Bonvi would agree.
I think can be useful for you add a sheet with the factory evacuation status, and maybe set your objectives (i.e. I need X amount of vehicles, y of armaments, etc.)
I think can be useful for you add a sheet with the factory evacuation status, and maybe set your objectives (i.e. I need X amount of vehicles, y of armaments, etc.)
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn three.
I will be going on a week long holiday now, so nomore turns will be posted until next weekend.
I will be going on a week long holiday now, so nomore turns will be posted until next weekend.
- Attachments
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- 20160720Turn3.zip
- (2.83 MiB) Downloaded 161 times
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
ORIGINAL: AlessandroD
I think can be useful for you add a sheet with the factory evacuation status, and maybe set your objectives (i.e. I need X amount of vehicles, y of armaments, etc.)
I will give it some thought for sure.
I haven't set any "I will surrender if I lose X factory points" rules for myself. I intend toplay on as long as I realistically can conduct a proper defense.
For now my focus is to salvage what can be salvaged and then I shall see where I stand come winter.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8851
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
I'm sure you are aware that you can actually see the Axis rail network by hovering over the rail line. You will get one of three results, you are looking for the one that says Axis Rail 1 which means that a FBD just repaired that hex this turn. Follow the trail and you will see which hexes have been converted this turn. In the Baltic states the Axis can convert 6 a turn and elsewhere(terrain permitting) 4 per turn.ORIGINAL: Dinglir
Turn two is up.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I'm sure you are aware that you can actually see the Axis rail network by hovering over the rail line. You will get one of three results, you are looking for the one that says Axis Rail 1 which means that a FBD just repaired that hex this turn. Follow the trail and you will see which hexes have been converted this turn. In the Baltic states the Axis can convert 6 a turn and elsewhere(terrain permitting) 4 per turn.
Well, I know now.....
Thanks for the info. It will help quite a lot actually.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn four.
- Attachments
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- 20160722Turn4.zip
- (2.95 MiB) Downloaded 143 times
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Hi Dinglir,
I would like to give some constructive feedback:
I have never played Soviets, only Axis, so takes this with a grain of salt [;)]. You are doing a few things that an Axis player really likes in the first 4 turns; you are very concerned with force preservation and forming neat lines of defence. This results in you giving up space, but as you are not forcing the Axis player to burn MPs, not winning time; He can just follow his plan. You are also withdrawing to positions without any previous forces digging in it
When I look at your starting situation in the North for turn 4:
My considerations would be as follows:
- OK, major crisis, what now?
- At least I can cripple the flow of supplies with just 2 divisions
- I can see at least one extra Pz Corps here, he must be weaker in the centre, what do I do with this intel?
- I must hold the volkhov to protect ladoga ports, and it is a major river with swamps and requires infantry to cross reliably. Behind the volkhov, there is literally nothing but woods.
The first couple of turns should have a very strong mathematical driving force:
- Opponent is more mobile
- Hence withdrawing without fighting to the next line enablesthe opponent to capitalise on his edge in mobility and will only result in your defences to be outmanoeuvred.
- To even out the playing field it is crucial that I use some units to burn movement points (screening), especially in favourable terrain (blocking forces in swamps/rough are a nightmare for axis players, especially if rivers are also involved).
- The objective is to enable your main force that is being screened to dig. Withdrawing to a line that was not previously digging is only useful when the Axis player reaches the absolute limit of supply.
Again, I don't know the constraints of the Soviet side so I could be completely wrong, but having to had to deal with effective screening; it really is a big pain in the ass and forces choices. By the way, forcing difficult choices is my overall strategy in any war game
I would like to give some constructive feedback:
I have never played Soviets, only Axis, so takes this with a grain of salt [;)]. You are doing a few things that an Axis player really likes in the first 4 turns; you are very concerned with force preservation and forming neat lines of defence. This results in you giving up space, but as you are not forcing the Axis player to burn MPs, not winning time; He can just follow his plan. You are also withdrawing to positions without any previous forces digging in it
When I look at your starting situation in the North for turn 4:
My considerations would be as follows:
- OK, major crisis, what now?
- At least I can cripple the flow of supplies with just 2 divisions
- I can see at least one extra Pz Corps here, he must be weaker in the centre, what do I do with this intel?
- I must hold the volkhov to protect ladoga ports, and it is a major river with swamps and requires infantry to cross reliably. Behind the volkhov, there is literally nothing but woods.
The first couple of turns should have a very strong mathematical driving force:
- Opponent is more mobile
- Hence withdrawing without fighting to the next line enablesthe opponent to capitalise on his edge in mobility and will only result in your defences to be outmanoeuvred.
- To even out the playing field it is crucial that I use some units to burn movement points (screening), especially in favourable terrain (blocking forces in swamps/rough are a nightmare for axis players, especially if rivers are also involved).
- The objective is to enable your main force that is being screened to dig. Withdrawing to a line that was not previously digging is only useful when the Axis player reaches the absolute limit of supply.
Again, I don't know the constraints of the Soviet side so I could be completely wrong, but having to had to deal with effective screening; it really is a big pain in the ass and forces choices. By the way, forcing difficult choices is my overall strategy in any war game
- Attachments
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- Dinglingr.jpg (107.05 KiB) Viewed 740 times
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Aditia.
If you are referring to conducting a pincer movement by two divisions meeting up at Plyussa, I did consider making the attempt.
However, as the Soviet morale at this point in time is pretty poor, it would cost me about five extra MP's to move adjacent to an enemy division. When you combine this with the low Soviet MP in 1941, I believe that a prerequisite for success of the pincer movement is that the German unit two hexes out from Plyussa is not a fighting unit. If it is, I do not belive I would have the MP's to conduct the attack cutting off German supplies.
What the image I posted does not show is the 20 recon attampts I did in order to find out the unit type of that unit (they all failed). I do realize that I could just open Pelton's AAR and see it for myself (before the game, he told me I could read it if I wanted to). I consider that to be "gamey" though, and so I refrain from doing that. I've read the thread, but I ignore the images Pelton posts.
So, I was faced with the uncertainty of the unit type. It could be an airfield, but that would have shown to my 20 or so Recon attempts. It could be an HQ, but the HQ's have a lot of MP's so why would the Germans place it unprotected when there is no need to? Finally, it could be an infantry division. I believe it is and based on the advances of other infantry divisions south of Lake Ilmen it is more than likely that infantry could be in that position to cover the southern flank of the German spearhead.
Finally, I decided against making the attempt, as it would likely cost me two divisions and in the unlikely event of success (I rated it below 5% at that point) it would give me one turn of supply cutting for the German spearhead. The math simply didn't add up, and I decided against trying the move.
Please note, that I'm not saying that I made the right decision here. I simply state my arguments for making the decision I did, and I will leave it up to you to decide for yourself if you think I was right or wrong.
I do agree with you in that this game is about forcing the hard decisions on your opponent, but I also believe force preservation during the first few turns allows me to do that much more effectively later on. This belief is based on my current experience level and may change at a later point. If I did do a forward defense at this point in time, I would just risk major encirclements and throwing the campaign in a few short turns.
But my level of aggression may well change now. I have received turn five from Pelton, and although I haven't yet made any in depth analysis of the situation, I do think I have a few options for shifting gear.
We will see.
If you are referring to conducting a pincer movement by two divisions meeting up at Plyussa, I did consider making the attempt.
However, as the Soviet morale at this point in time is pretty poor, it would cost me about five extra MP's to move adjacent to an enemy division. When you combine this with the low Soviet MP in 1941, I believe that a prerequisite for success of the pincer movement is that the German unit two hexes out from Plyussa is not a fighting unit. If it is, I do not belive I would have the MP's to conduct the attack cutting off German supplies.
What the image I posted does not show is the 20 recon attampts I did in order to find out the unit type of that unit (they all failed). I do realize that I could just open Pelton's AAR and see it for myself (before the game, he told me I could read it if I wanted to). I consider that to be "gamey" though, and so I refrain from doing that. I've read the thread, but I ignore the images Pelton posts.
So, I was faced with the uncertainty of the unit type. It could be an airfield, but that would have shown to my 20 or so Recon attempts. It could be an HQ, but the HQ's have a lot of MP's so why would the Germans place it unprotected when there is no need to? Finally, it could be an infantry division. I believe it is and based on the advances of other infantry divisions south of Lake Ilmen it is more than likely that infantry could be in that position to cover the southern flank of the German spearhead.
Finally, I decided against making the attempt, as it would likely cost me two divisions and in the unlikely event of success (I rated it below 5% at that point) it would give me one turn of supply cutting for the German spearhead. The math simply didn't add up, and I decided against trying the move.
Please note, that I'm not saying that I made the right decision here. I simply state my arguments for making the decision I did, and I will leave it up to you to decide for yourself if you think I was right or wrong.
I do agree with you in that this game is about forcing the hard decisions on your opponent, but I also believe force preservation during the first few turns allows me to do that much more effectively later on. This belief is based on my current experience level and may change at a later point. If I did do a forward defense at this point in time, I would just risk major encirclements and throwing the campaign in a few short turns.
But my level of aggression may well change now. I have received turn five from Pelton, and although I haven't yet made any in depth analysis of the situation, I do think I have a few options for shifting gear.
We will see.
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Turn five.
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- 20160731Turn5.zip
- (3.72 MiB) Downloaded 133 times
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End
Interesting read Dinglir. Did you contain the Finns at the Janis line? Or are they on the loose in Karelia? Also remember on the Volkhov line, the single objective he has is to cut off the ports (only Sviritsa is behind the Volkhov if I remember correctly).