AE and WitE and WitW

[scout1]

I have all three....... AE will stay on my hard drive for a very long time ..... I took a break for about a year but back at it again ... The East Front has always been a big drawn gamers. Though I struggled getting into WitE. Gave up on it for awhile before trying it again. Wasn't real happy with the interface. Started a '41 pbem game but opponent disappeared on me, though 800+ units/counters with an obvious high density at the front was difficult to manage. The air aspect is grossly simplified.
WitW greatly expanded the air aspect to a fairly detailed approach to where it is almost a game in of itself. Land unit count is obviously greatly reduced compared to WitE which makes it more manageable. The time period 43 onward though is reflected in the game play as one of attrition. The added additional scenarios's (Operation Torch) which has some earlier African conflicts, but no full campaign there. As mentioned there really isn't much of an naval aspect to it. Not sure why they at least didn't design a 1940 scenario for France and the Low countries. All the effort by 2by3 is now shifted to WitE 2.0, where I suspect they will be pulling features from WitW over to WitE.

[Denniss]

WitW is a land/air based game with some limited naval modelling. It wasn't possible to mix WitE with the naval part of WitP to create WitW + it would have taken another 1-2 years for researching the gazillions of ships used in and around Europe.
The game was far from over for the Germans in mid 43, properly/wisely used forces may create serious problems for allied landing ops.
There are still some problems in the game but that will likely be fixed or tuned in future patches.

[Sardaukar]

I was beta testing WitW and play WitE..and of course AE. Now my time is mostly consumed with Command Modern Air Naval Operations.

All great games.

WitW has greatly improved air operations system, which also makes it more complicated than WitE. Naval things are mostly abstracted, apart from invasions, which are (IMHO) quite well modeled.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

adly some teen-aged children and a spouse have drafted a fairly hard negotiation stance over 'total hours on desktop' [8D]

similar issues in my house. [X(][X(][X(]

[&o][&o][&o]

[chemkid]

.

[JeffroK]

WITW has a very detailed air system and a reasonable ground game, its just that they have almost no naval game and their use of Victory points to force down narrow strategies ruins their effort.

Play the game, ignore the VP numbers and its not too bad.

PLUS, they used some amazingly restrictive data headers so its really hard to do a mod that is more than tinkering around the edges.

4/10

[AlessandroD]

I think all three are great games but the difference for me is the longevity:

WitP-AE great
WitE good
WitW very limited

Really looking forward to WitE 2!

[Yaab]

WiTP:AE is more epic since it has one day turns. WITE is weekly turns,and it feels too abstracted because of that.

Compared to WITE, there is a feeling that player's input (orders) have more influence on the outcome of battles. This again has to do with daily turns.

AE has a good balance of air/naval/land components, while AE is all land plus a very abstracted air.

AE has combat animations which are quiet exiciting to watch. Note however, that AE's land combat animations are pretty bland - just a backgrond and some sounds. I whish there was a graphic representation of combat in WITE which neither gets repetitive or boring.

AE has interestin end game. In RL, there was no land invasion of Japan. Also, the Jap players get new toys late-war like kamikaze and jets. Soviets get active. Basically, endgame is interesting in AE, while in WITE the endgame does not bring anything new.

Also, in WITE the Allies can countertack through several places: CBI, DEI, New Guinea and Alaska. In WITE there is only tedious lateral east-west movement.

[Dili]

Edited.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

- War in the Mediterranean June 1940 - July 1943. There is simply so much to say and I've repeated it countless times. This is a game that has to be made.

Well said Ser !

Actually I second that and I would further add to it !

I would love to see a dedicated 'Campaign' of the Med region recreating all aspects of WW2 and more.

I would actually start with the Italian Abyssinian Campaign in 1936 and end somewhere in 1943 with the invasion of Sicily.

You can include:

1) Naval battles in the med
2) The airstike on Tarranto
3) Italian Regia Marina (spelling?) verses the Royal Navy
4) Supply to Malta critical path
5) Italy and North Africa

<edit para drop invasion of Crete>

6) The German intervention of Afrika Korps
7) Monty takes over with supply
8) Torch

The map would be a line of everything:

~ from Barcelona - Corsica - Venice - Istanbul south
~ to a line from Dakar - Kenya north

I think the AE engine would handle that sort of game very well; albeit dedicated North Africa campaigners may complain that the land combat is a little over simplified...

In PBEM you could even envision Axis Players paying a huge Political Point cost to buy out a certain Generalismo in Spain and invade Gib for example... How would the British react ? How would Vichy French react.

It would be a tough game to program because of changing factions - especially the Spanish / French / Moroccans etc....

But I would love that game. Its been over due for many years.

[warspite1]

There are many who seem to feel the same way about such a game but sadly……..

Even allowing for a ‘vanilla’ game – start June 10th 1940 and ending the earlier of a) May 1943, b) the ejection of the Axis from North Africa or c) the conquest of Gibraltar and Cairo – the possibilities are endless.

Once France falls the Commonwealth are stretched to breaking point. It’s the summer of 1940. Whilst much of Britain’s fighter and bomber strength, the bulk of her navy, and every man they can spare is in the UK to re-build after the disaster in Belgium and to repel a possible invasion, Wavell’s small force (essentially a glorified Imperial Police Force) is spread all over the Middle East, and its core Western Desert Force has to meet whatever comes at it – including the possibility of the Axis operating from Vichy bases in Morocco/Algeria/Tunisia and Syria.

Meanwhile the Royal Navy (RN) is split in two at either end of the Middle Sea. The decision is made to keep Malta in the war. The strain on the RN just got a whole lot bigger. The Regia Marina (RM), holding the central Mediterranean, has the internal lines of communication and the giant aircraft carriers Sicily, Sardinia and Calabria. She also has the two 15-inch gunned battleships Littorio and Vittorio Veneto about to come into service. These powerful ships have a combination of speed and armament better than anything the RN can put into battle. The Italians also have newer and more powerful cruisers.

Both navies have an overriding job. The RN must keep Malta in the war and the sea lanes open for any other adventures Winston Churchill dreams up – including keeping the Mediterranean open from west to east and vice-versa for the transfer or urgent army and air force supplies and naval reinforcements. Failure to do so and they will have to use the lengthy Cape route…. The RM must keep the troops in Africa and Greece supplied. The Italians have to be careful with their oil consumption (or not as per real life [8|]) while other commitments (North and South Atlantic + the Indian Ocean) means that the British often operate with even fewer ships than they thought they had!

Benito Mussolini is desperate to create a new Roman Empire across Mare Nostrum and the Adriatic. Adolf Hitler is happy to let him get on with it….but the valiant Greeks say Ochi and Wavell sends his 30,000 to take on the Italian 5th and 10th Armies. Il Duce makes such a shocking mess of the whole thing that Hitler – keen to ensure there are no sideshows to the main event in the East - has no choice but to go to his aid both in the Balkans and in Africa itself. Hitler’s orders to Rommel are to shore up their southern neighbours – but Rommel is not listening and takes the offensive against a British Army that has been weakened by the commitment to Greece.

Decisive Campaign: Barbarossa has introduced to the mix command problems faced by the Germans and Soviets. Imagine such a thing in this game! Mussolini vs Hitler, Mussolini vs Franco and Petain, German/Italian antagonism, Luftwaffe vs Regia Marina, what resources can Hitler send to Africa given that Barbarossa is his raison d’etre? Churchill and his generals, De Gaulle, Aussie and Kiwi participation once Japan gets involved, how much can Churchill afford to send to Egypt? What ships can the RN afford to send to the Mediterranean?

It’s all here: carrier battles (well one side has them….sort of [:D]), battleships, small ship engagements, convoy battles, submarine warfare, amphibious invasions, paratroop assaults, panzer and armoured divisions, fortresses, naval/air battles……..

Then if you add the random factors such as:

- Random times that France can fall
- Vichy/No Vichy
- France decides to fight from North Africa
- German invasion of Spain
- German alignment of Spain
- Italian no invasion of Greece in order to concentrate on Egypt
- Commonwealth do not support Greece
- Germans decide on an all-out Mediterranean strategy before turning east
- Maybe even Turkey!

then those possibilities just explode.

[Dili]

If things go well for me, there will be a Med Mod to show in next year. But it will have the limitations of current engine which are very restricting.

It will be 10 June 1940 up until end 1943.

[warspite1]

I'm not sure this is the right engine for the land war sadly and I'd be looking for any such game to improve on the graphics (the on map graphics - not the wonderful ship and aircraft art). But I applaud your efforts [&o]

[Anachro]

I'm just waiting for the War in the... game that encompasses the entire world and all fronts. All units. All commanders. Individual soldiers, not squads. A game that will calculate just how much pasta Italian troops need each day in addition to other rations...

[JocMeister]

Own all three games. AE obviously is in a league of its own. WITE is brilliant when it comes to land combat but severely lacking when it comes to air and naval warfare. Logistics is also very weak.

WitW is brilliant in many aspects but is absolutely destroyed by a horrible VP system. The engine and scale works very poorly given the theatre. It's a game that shouldn't have been IMO. They should have made WITE2 instead or better adapted the engine to the setting. Overall the game worked very poorly when I abandoned it.

[Rising-Sun]

Just bought the old War in the Pacific, interesting game back then. Wanted to keep this as collecting and least helping them out with money, but gotta say the Admiral Edition is the best War in the Pacific there is. If you can handle the macro management thing and a lot of timing to put up with, then this game is for you as long you enjoying it.

Really looking forward if they are willing to make part two.

[moonraker65]

My biggest fear is that they will use that horrible UI from WiTE/WiTW for the next AE which I have to say would be a big mistake. I found WiTE frustratingly complicated and I had to give up in the end after scratching my head a few times

[Dili]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I'm not sure this is the right engine for the land war sadly and I'd be looking for any such game to improve on the graphics (the on map graphics - not the wonderful ship and aircraft art). But I applaud your efforts [&o]

I am not sure either, but the current game land combat in the sparse Northern Kwantung/Mongolia didn't looked too bad.

The graphics for me are good enough, i have no problems, plus with the shear amount of stuff i think it is very difficult to improve on that. That would be the last thing i would spend resources to improve in an eventual WITP 2.

[AlessandroD]

My biggest fear is that they will use that horrible UI from WiTE/WiTW for the next AE which I have to say would be a big mistake.

Sadly, I don't think you will see a new AE at all.

[obvert]

Grigsby for instance has said that he would never do another game as complicated or detailed as WITP. If it happens another Pacific game is constructed it'll most likely be something more flashy, less gritty, less control over individual elements. The minority that play a game like WITP over years is not going to finance the game we'd like to see, unfortunately.