New mod Wars on the Horizon

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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Capt: Honestly I haven't thought about the Russians. I will have to look. If you have any suggestions let me know. I don't know much about Russians in the time period. I am also open to suggestion about the Japanese.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Russia still looking into that. I am making some progress. Toss, SD, and the Dutch BB are in along with some new weapons for th new ships. I am working on the Italian ships now.

I am also toying with the idea of adding spotters in CD units to help them engage bombardment TFs. I have alway thought they were a bit anemic in shooting and hitting ships. Maybe it's just me. Thanks Sid for this.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon Updated

Post by DOCUP »

Updated. Will work on change log later. Have fun
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traskott
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon Updated

Post by traskott »

Downloaded and installed.

Overall I realy like it. [:)]

Some bugs/problems:

B-26B-1- 6 torpedoes?? [:D][:D]. As AFB, I'm happy but... :P
CB Alaska at Panama with 1944 upgrades..
Missing Huntington Art of Upgrades.
G5N Art missing.
He-100f art wrong. ( the second He-100 version ).
Settsu and PG Sri Ayuthia looks like wrong or weird or..
Ger Do-24k-1: wrong art.
Derfflinger upgrades are... dunno, poor?
Deutschland class no upgrades?

Any chance of 109Gs or such?

Love the W.Whirlwind!!! :)

Soo many new toys for dutch and french sqns.... but few pilots!! That should be adressesed.

Good mod!!! Hope play it soon!!![&o]

Good job adding all those ships and planes. Thai planes are cool...


Edit: poor spelling...
paradigmblue
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by paradigmblue »

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Russia still looking into that. I am making some progress. Toss, SD, and the Dutch BB are in along with some new weapons for th new ships. I am working on the Italian ships now.

I am also toying with the idea of adding spotters in CD units to help them engage bombardment TFs. I have alway thought they were a bit anemic in shooting and hitting ships. Maybe it's just me. Thanks Sid for this.

I'd love to know how effective this is, and how exactly you model it in regards to the device and LCU.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Traskott: I'm working on the ride. Some big mistakes, I made. 109G when did it go into production? Upgrades for the German and Italian ships. I didn't do any because they had no access to the fatherland. I guess I could add Japanese weapons. I like the Whirlwind, I read a few articles saying if they would of continued its development it would of worked into a really good fighter.

Paradigmblue I will tell u when I find out.

Keep the comments coming. Thanks traskott
cardas
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by cardas »

While I'm all for adding ships for nations that doesn't have "United" in their name I do question the logic of how the Netherlands would get their hands on any of the German Mackensen ships.
First of all why would Germany want to hand them over in the first place? That would leave them with a battlecruiser force that's straight out inferior to their smaller neighbour which would seem unacceptable. I'd assume that they'd much rather finish two Mackensens for themself and scrap the Derfflingers if they would have that option, if not they'd scrap them. The only somewhat twisted logic I could see in letting the Dutch get the Mackensens would be if the Germans had concluded that the speed wasn't worth the sacrifices needed, but then they'd probably scrap both Derfflinger-class ships and finish Sachsen and Württemberg instead for themself. That would leave Germany with a slower but uniform battleship line.
The second is whether the victors would have allowed Germany to actually sell them to anyone. The ships of the Mackensen-class would be some of the most powerful ships in 1918. Now granted this isn't as big of an issue considering your treaty timeline isn't the same, but worth thinking about.

It might not matter that much for the Pacific, but I find it hard to believe that France would accept being even further behind (i.e. Japan, UK and USA gets even more battleship tonnage) than in the real world. Not only that, they'd have a Germany with four relative modern capital ships along with a Netherlands that has 3 brand new battlecruisers which are vastly superior to the best capital ships available to (real world timeline) France. Especially with the war ending earlier which presumably would leave France in a slightly better place economically and with slightly more healthy demographics.

When it comes to Russia you'd could probably still assume that it collapses, but the outcome might be very different. I could see it ending with a white Russia or an even weaker Russia (more parts break away) than in the real world timeline. I'm a bit doubtful if it would result in a stronger Russian navy though, even if that were the case you'd assume most ships would be bottled up by minefields in the Baltic or not allowed to pass the Bosphorus from the Black Sea.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Traskott: Problems fixed.

Cardas: Good point. My thoughts. Germans call for truce talks after Russia surrenders. Allies are afraid of all the troops that won't tied down by the Russians. So they go a long with the talks. Germans get some of their colonial assets back. The allies drive a hard bargain. Germans get to keep a portion of there fleet. They choose the most modern BBs and BCs and smaller ships. Germany is allowed to keep some of the lands it has conquered in Europe. They are still hit with large monetary sanctions that will lead to the Nazi's party coming to power. They are forced to destroy all new ships being built. A cunning Dutch government buy 3 Mackensens hulls at scrap metal prices along with the other equipment that went with this ship. Instead of scrapping it they hire out of work German ship designers and builders to assist in building there new capital ships.

More later.
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traskott
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by traskott »

First 109Gs were built at the first months of 1942. 109G included lot of sub-variants, from G-2 til G-12, with G-6 been the more produced 109 (12.000 aprox).
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Cadras: German would have 2 Derfflingers and 2 Bayern Class BBs that would be around 120k of shipping. I have the French at 175k of shipping with about the same age of BBs.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

How would the Germans get the new 109G model to the Pacific? That's the reason I have no upgrades to planes or ships.
cardas
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by cardas »

I'm still not sure I fully buy that the Dutch could get their hands on the Mackensens and then not being forced to scrap them, but as I said, your treaty timeline neuters their power somewhat. A happy side effect however with Dutch Mackensens would be that it could justify the completion of newer ships by the treaty nations (your extra battleship tonnage).

This is a really minor thing but...
I'd like to point out that who started the war and why doesn't have to be the same as in the real world in your mod. There's no reason a fascist Germany has to be the one that starts WW2. The only thing that matters in the context of WitP:AE is that some kind of conflict is going on at the other side of the world to explain the lacklustre response by the European powers and the USA and that the allied side is, in general in control of the Atlantic. But who attacks whom and how the conflict exactly evolves isn't set in stone. Having it close to the real world timeline is of course the easiest answer though, especially when you have a bunch of nations hardcoded already on the Allied side.

Edit:
Ah, hadn't seen your new post. The thing with France is that it has both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean to worry about, along with its colonial possessions. It was the second largest navy at the start of the century and the fourth largest (USA and Germany had passed them) by WW2. Being put as an equal to Italy in the Washington Naval Treaty wasn't exactly a great result for them and probably only acceptable due to their economical situation and the neutered German force. In your mod though the Germans are stronger and if they'd somehow would get an alliance with the Netherlands then they'd be ahead, and that's on only one "front" (Atlantic). As I said, not really such a big deal for the Pacific war, but still.

Yeah, you said about 120k, so it depends on what tonnage figure you deal with. If you say that they only get to keep completed ships then it isn't a big deal anyway, as none of the Mackensens nor the two new Bayerns were complete.

The Derfflinger upgrade is especially underwhelming because they only get a radar and it would be odd to have left one of the few German capital ships they have without radar by that time.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Cadras: Under the new WNT, both France and Italy get 250 of tonnage. France is in better shape financially and builds the Normandie class BB. I like the Mackensen BCs. You and Traskott are right about the Derfflinger upgrades. I am working on the and I have already added the Fumo radar. Nice art work in the other thread. I know someone who will use it.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

German capital ships have upgrades. Not for sure of how correct they are, but will take feed back or advise from you guys. You guys are correct the upgrades were sad really dad. I'm still thinking about how to get the 109G in the game. Still thinking of how. Maybe add a factory the best place Germany had for that was its Chinese colony before Japan captured it. Hmm that's an idea.
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traskott
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by traskott »

One city at China ( Hankow?) was a german colony at WWI. Put there some small factories of the german airplanes, a H.R. to not change them, nor increase, and voila.
cardas
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by cardas »

Thanks for the positive comment about the art, as I said in the art thread, go ahead and use them as you wish. With that in mind the fantasy mod I was creating (and probably won't ever finish) actually has German aircraft factories at Tsingtao, so I would definitely favour a solution like the one mentioned by traskott. Of course then you'd need added engine production as well if you care about using the correct engines.
The German concessions in China that I'm aware of would be at Tsingtao and Tientsin, but I feel using Tsingtao primarily is more fitting. Essentially make Tsingtao the German far-east naval base and somewhat equivalent to Hong Kong. Italy also had a concession in Tientsin (well, a lot of European powers had concessions in Tientsin).
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Cadras: your welcome. Tsingtao was my thought for a naval base for German and Italian forces. I can put the German ARD there with AC and engine factories. With a small LCU from both countries. I have thought of this before, but never followed up on it. Use an HR for only German planes and engines and no expansion. Sounds good to me.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

Ok, let's say I'm adding these factories. Should I stick with just the 109 line or move to another plane? I'm not very knowledgeable on German stuff.
cardas
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by cardas »

I'd say the 109 line should be fine, it's the "essential" German fighter plane after all. So a Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine factory along with an aircraft factory for the BF 109 line. If you'd really want to you could even add an aircraft factory for the Italians that use the DB 605 engine (Re.2001 or C.202 as an example).

Now if you'd want an alternative, then there's the He 112 or He 100. The He 112 is a bit outdated by this time and doesn't use the DB 605. The He 100 on the other hand uses a variant of the DB 605 engine and could actually be a very nice alternative to the Bf 109, as Japan had actually bought a license for its production. That way you'd also get somewhat of a justification for the presence of the factory in China.
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DOCUP
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RE: New mod Wars on the Horizon

Post by DOCUP »

One thing that has stopped me from doing the Italians and other is that I don't have any art work for somethings. He 100 is interesting since I do have it in the game, but I don't think I have art for it in German markings. Having a decent German base could make it more plausible to have more upgrades to German ships.
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