Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Zaslon]

I saw that MiG-29M is missing in db444, but the twin seat version M2 is already here #2841.

Info

EDITED: my bad, I didn't saw it the last DB444 in 23 and 27.

---

I Think that aircrafts with R-23/R-24 and R-27 should have also a mixed loadout of IR and Radar versions. At this moment only is present a Radar loadout. IR missiles are in DB but aren't used.

---

Thanks.

[KLAB]

Much dialogue about this before on this thread and others but it appears the R-27T was never deployed on the MiG-29. and despite much book checking and googleing I cant find a photo of an operational Mig-29 using it.

Display models of the SMT/M2 etc at Air shows do have R-27T's laid out in front but I cant find images of an operational aircraft actually flying with the R-27T.

The R-23/24T is more complex as there seems to have been a wiring issue with the pylons (in the early variants?) and thus the missile was deployed as either the 2 x T or 2 x R not singularly.

The latest DB445 has amended (thanks again) the load outs in the Warsaw Pact and Soviet/Russian MiG-23's to include 1x-23/24T and 1x-23/24R's and photos evidence this is accurate.

So one R-23/24R and one R-23/24T is accurate but having two of either would be a nice addition.

From some research into the Angolan civil war and Cuban involvement it appears Cuban MiG-23's
had R-24T in the inventory (there's even a grainy photo!) Given the relationship between the Angolan and Cuban airforce at the time presumably the Angolan -23's had them too?
Latest DB doesn't have the option for Angolan / Cuban MiG-23's with R-23/24T loads, so that would be a nice addition, if possible please?
http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG23aa-e.html
http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/MiG23ang3.jpg

[Mgellis]

Got a bit more information about the Japanese Coast Guard. According to...

http://www.j-hangarspace.jp/japan-coast ... e-they-now

...the service dates for the Japanese Bell 212 are 1981-2015. (Actually, the last was retired in Feb. of 2016, but almost all the others were gone by the end of 2015.)

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

Bell 212
As far as I can tell, this is almost identical to the Bell 212 Utility (#1459), but does not have the Commando loadout; instead it would have a Passenger loadout ("a fifteen-seat configuration, with one pilot and fourteen passengers," according to Wikipedia).

I am finally working up a scenario with the Japanese Coast Guard (the first of many, I hope), so any additions in the next version of the database, especially with their aircraft (e.g., Bell 412EP and S-76D), would be very welcome. Thanks!

\

[Mgellis]

More for Japan's coast guard...

Bombardier De Havilland Canada DHC-8-315Q MPA
Probably very similar (or identical) to the one used by Iceland, DB #4557
Service dates: 2009-present

Some useful information at...

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Japan-Coast-Guard
http://www.j-hangarspace.jp/japan-coast ... e-they-now

(Cool trivia...the Japanese Coast Guard names some of their search aircraft!)

AS332L-1 Super Puma
Probably identical to the one used by Iceland--I'm detecting a trend here, I think. DB #4555.
Service dates: 1992-present
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopte ... Super_Puma

Eurocopter EC225 Super Puma (aka Airbus Helicopters H225)
Service dates: 2008-present
This seems to be an improved version of the 332, with increased range being one important change. Some versions have FLIR for Search & Rescue, but I do not know if the Japanese variants have this or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopte ... Super_Puma
http://www.j-hangarspace.jp/japan-coast ... e-they-now
http://www.airbushelicopters.com/websit ... _1143.html
http://www.janes.com/article/58789/japa ... helicopter <-- some useful data; Japanese H225 is apparently the same configuration as the EC225
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... 62766).jpg <-- image for database from Wikicommons; "This work is free and may be used by anyone for any purpose. If you wish to use this content, you do not need to request permission as long as you follow any licensing requirements mentioned on this page....Wikimedia has received an e-mail confirming that the copyright holder has approved publication under the terms mentioned on this page. This correspondence has been reviewed by an OTRS member and stored in our permission archive. The correspondence is available to trusted volunteers as ticket #2013031510006025."
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/pro ... ter_ec225/

Thanks for considering these!

[Zaslon]

Thanks KLAB for the reply.

Now I saw that DB444 have the IR missiles in use. Well my research didn't found any fulcrum with R-27T too.

In the website of MiG, they said that the R-27T/ET can be used by the MiG-29S/SE/SM/SMT/M/M2 so...maybe R-27T is not commonly used in the loadouts, but it's a real possibility.

[Mgellis]

Okay, one for the Japanese Coast Guard and then I will stop for a while. I promise! [:)]

Saab 340B+ (SAR version)
Service dates: 1997-present

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_340
http://www.saabaircraftleasing.com/prod ... 0b_jar.pdf
http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraft-hi ... plane.html

Far less important, but perhaps worth doing, would be to add the SAAB 340 as a Commercial aircraft

Saab 340B, service dates: 1989-present (200 built, 34 passengers)
Saab 340B+, service dates: 1994-present (100 built, 34 passengers)

Thanks for considering these.

[mikmykWS]

updated our worklist to here

Thanks!

[walsherik]

Hi all

Is there a template for reporting missing units / Updating units in the databases or just collect as much info and send it in ?

Cheers

[ShadowStalker887]

First time posting here and I wanted to share something that might be an error; currently the Chinese carrier unit Type 001 "Shi Lang" has 2 Deck Parking slots for 10 large aircraft despite it's almost identical Russian counterpart the TAKR Admiral Kuznetsov having 1 Deck Parking slot for 24 large aircraft. I'm curious if this is by design or was simply missed by the Dev team. I have also noticed that the Hypothetical Unit TAKR Ulyanovsk has a 2x 10 large aircraft Deck Parking slot as well, which seems unusual given that it was to be significantly bigger then the TAKR Admiral Kuznetsov or Shi Lang. I don't really have much knowledge of soviet flight deck operations, but surely they would be able to fit more then 20 aircraft on a flight deck that size? If either of these have issues have been noted or are not considered issues at all, please forgive me for posting this, but otherwise thanks for continuing to make this game better and better!

[Excroat3]

Quick question, will the new version of the DB be released along with 11.5? Also, is there a general timeframe on the release of 11.5? Just wondering if I should wait for the new units to come out in the new DB or if I should just use placeholders for the time being in my scenario.

[ckfinite]

As far as I can tell, the Zumwalt should be able to carry at least SM-2MR, which would be consistent with its operation with ESSM. At the moment, in game, the Mk57 only supports TLAM, VLS-ASROC, ESSM, and SM-3.

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: walsherik

Hi all

Is there a template for reporting missing units / Updating units in the databases or just collect as much info and send it in ?

Cheers

Most of the info that we require is in the Database Viewer, but yeah the more info the better [8D]

[ComDev]

ORIGINAL: Excroat3

Quick question, will the new version of the DB be released along with 11.5? Also, is there a general timeframe on the release of 11.5? Just wondering if I should wait for the new units to come out in the new DB or if I should just use placeholders for the time being in my scenario.

Soon, very soon (I hope, lol!).

[gosnold]

#68 - Trumpet II satellite has the SBIRS HEO package mdeled as:

Model Max Range Notes Abilities
1x Generic Satellite IR Camera 2000 nm Infrared, Ballistic Missile Launch Detection Infrared, 3rd Generation Imaging (2000s/2010s, Impr LANTIRN, Litening II/III, ATFLIR) Technology, ABM & Space Search, Heading Info

The range is too short, it does not reach the Earth from geostationary orbit, so the sensor cannot detect any missile launches (tried and confirmed ingame).
The range should be the same as the ELINT payload, so 25000nm.

All missile warning satellites in the database seem to have this issue.

[thewood1]

ORIGINAL: ckfinite

As far as I can tell, the Zumwalt should be able to carry at least SM-2MR, which would be consistent with its operation with ESSM. At the moment, in game, the Mk57 only supports TLAM, VLS-ASROC, ESSM, and SM-3.

The navy themselves at one time claimed otherwise...

"On 31 July 2008, Vice Admiral Barry McCullough (Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Integration of Resources and Capabilities) and Allison Stiller (Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Ship Programs) stated that "the DDG 1000 cannot perform area air defense; specifically, it cannot successfully employ the Standard Missile-2 (SM-2), SM-3 or SM-6 and is incapable of conducting Ballistic Missile Defense."[70] Dan Smith, president of Raytheon’s Integrated Defense Systems division, has countered that the radar and combat system are essentially the same as other SM-2-capable ships, "I can’t answer the question as to why the Navy is now asserting … that Zumwalt is not equipped with an SM-2 capability".[21] The lack of anti-ballistic missile capability may represent a lack of compatibility with SM-2/SM-3. "

Not sure where it stands now.

Just looked at the naval budget for 2012. Plan was to start quals for an upgrade for DDG-1000 to be compatible with SM-2. Looks like an electronis and software integration issue that USN was looking to resolve...

http://dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2014/Na ... B_2014.pdf

Just found 2015. Looks like integration work is ongoing. Might be budget reductions have slowed the work down.

[ckfinite]

From that though, it looks like neither ESSM nor SM-2 could have illumination provided by SPY-3 until the software upgrade was performed, in which case the ship shouldn't have ESSM, its only in game air defense weapon, either.

Edit: from this in the 2017 budget, the program is still cranking along.

Edit 2:

Here are some previous budget reports for the program:

2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016

It looks like that the missiles would be fielded on the DDG 1000 at about 2018. There's also this thesis on JUWL integration with ESSM and SM-2. It looks like that if the DDG 1000 has ESSM, though, it should have SM-2 at the same time.

The 2018 number is a synthesis of the lines

2015:

SM Development, integration, and test is expected to conclude by FY18 for the X-band JUWL and ICWI.

2016:

Conduct
planning and configure SM-2/ESSM/SM-6 Internal Missile Initializer and Power Supply (IMIPS) Inert Operating
Missile (IOM) in preparation for land based testing at Surface Combat Systems Center, Wallops Island, Virginia
(SCSC) in FY 18.

Thesis:

The JUWL integration plan is very ambitious. The current schedule allows each
missile variant one three-to-four month period for “ground-based” integration with the
C/S prior to at-sea flight testing. At this time, the ground integration tests will be
performed with a version of the C/S software that will be different than the flight test
version. Successful flight tests will therefore depend a great deal on the type and extent of
the differences in the final two DDG-1000 C/S software versions and the base APAR
software that has directed JUWL development. As discussed above, the lack of radar and
WCE models has forced the JUWL developers to use the original APAR/ICWI software
as a basis for modeling and component testing.

This suggests that the on-short component of testing for SM will begin in 2017 (FY 2018), continuing for three to four months, followed by what appears to be at most a year of at sea flight testing. This would therefore suggest a SM-2 IOC on the DDG 1000 by 2018, assuming no slips.

[peterc100248]

The US aircraft loadouts for F-18 variants (and other types as well) carry the ITALD decoy and the MALD-J miniature multi-configurable device. There is a pure decoy MALD available to some aircraft, but seemingly not any of the F-18s. In reality, all the MALD variants are inter-operable across the USAF/USN aircraft certified to carry the device. The MALD-J can function as either aircraft simulator/decoy or jammer yet there is no way to set the desired operation within the program. Maybe add all the MALD variants to any aircraft certified to carry it?

I still maintain that the program, as is, has a huge problem with decoys. Unless the targets have their doctrine set to weapons free and radars set to active, the decoys are just ignored. That makes the use of decoys a waste of time. The same units with weapons set to tight and radars off almost always engage real weapons. Decoys are specifically designed to emulate aircraft/weapons in any aspect of their deployment.

I can say from experience that decoys, carried on ICBMs/SLBMs, are a very effective way to hide MIRV warheads from the most advanced defense systems on earth. If the decoy does not fool the defender into targeting it, the decoy has no reason for existence.

Whatever the AI decision making process is for launching attacks on hostile aircraft/missiles/bombs needs to be exactly the same when applied to decoys. The whole visual argument just doesn't wash due to the difficulty of identifying an object coming straight at you at 550 kts (900+ feet per second) and 30 ft. above the surface. You simply do not have time to decide it is harmless - you shoot.

[PN79]

ORIGINAL: KLAB

...

The R-23/24T is more complex as there seems to have been a wiring issue with the pylons (in the early variants?) and thus the missile was deployed as either the 2 x T or 2 x R not singularly.

...

MiG-23MF cannot carry one R-23R together with another R-23T but MiG-23ML could carry such combination. Also currently all MiG-23ML in the database are set to carry only R-24R/R-24T and not any R-23 variants, currently MiG-23ML radar cannot iluminate R-23R missile which is not correct as MiG-23ML system can handle R-23R (and R-23T) and for example Czechoslovakia never bought any R-24 missiles and only R-23R and R-23T were carried by our MiG-23ML.

[CrazyIvan101]

ORIGINAL: emsoy

ORIGINAL: Excroat3

Quick question, will the new version of the DB be released along with 11.5? Also, is there a general timeframe on the release of 11.5? Just wondering if I should wait for the new units to come out in the new DB or if I should just use placeholders for the time being in my scenario.

Soon, very soon (I hope, lol!).

I heard that laser mechanics were going to improved/changed, is this still planned?

[peterc100248]

Found another weapon entry that needs attention:

Weapon 2733 - Raytheon AGM-176A Griffin

Current database lists range as 3 nm - However, that is for a current un-powered missile (bomb) in air/surface mode. When loaded onto aircraft and forward-fired, the Block II B model (powered) has a range of 12 nm. The current database (update to 837) lists guidance as Laser spot only. The below reference also lists GPS guidance (even on the A model).

The Griffin can be substituted for Hellfire missiles on all Hellfire-capable platforms. It allows 3 Griffins in place of 1 Hellfire. That is particularly attractive for drone aircraft.

Quick source: Military.Wikia.com