Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

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HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

with that opening hes in for a hard fight.

+1
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

I had a look at some of Herr Pelton's examples of the Janis line he has cracked. I would say his opponents left it too late. You need to have the line ready beforehand, not be preparing it as the Finns are at the doorstep.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by ericv »

I have had some tries at cracking that against a Russian player reinforcing it with divisions from turn 1, and can only agree that it is just very difficult to crack. The Germans had one extremely lucky dice roll in 100+ tries to crack it in 20+ different games. That 1 result was just weird. Once it does get cracked however with loss of fort level, there is no stopping the Finns afaik.

like has been said here:
Man the line in turn 1,
I would add to that : give 7th independent Army an even more decent commander than Meretskow, with better initiative for reserve activation, at least for the first couple of months. This commander, Konev mostly in my case, although pretty useless, will keep his win-loss ratio positive and not risk getting sacked with loss of stats. Meretzkov, as Armygeneral, always gets put in command of a Front, without incurring penalties or stat loss, this early on by me, to replace the really crappy ones.
assign 2 construction brigades (although 1 maybe would suffice). Enjoy the rest en relaxation at Janis with some Janis Joplin playing in the background.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by ericv »

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Sorry Eric

Not sure what to make of your reply.
I meant no disrespect, I have the highest regard for your playing skills ever since the beating you are stilling handing out to Brian.


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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet T2 (26th June 1941) Clear

Not a huge amount to report. The real interest will come from T3 on. But he has left 3rd PzGp well positioned to head either north to support the drive on Leningrad or head due east to Luki or south east to Vitebsk. This keeps me guessing and means I have to try and cover all bases.

The rest looks pretty standard.

I shift a lot of troops from the south to the Pskov area and the land bridge. His next turn will indicate some of his intentions. That’s when the real game begins.

The Janis line is well under way. I will provide a shot of it next turn.


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Girshwin
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Girshwin »

I've read in some AARs that the Soviet paratroop units are important to save. I notice here they are screening the front line. I assume their strength and the annoyance factor of them retreating and not routing is the reason they are out in front?

I look forward to seeing how Manstein decides to break the wall.
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HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: Girshwin

I've read in some AARs that the Soviet paratroop units are important to save. I notice here they are screening the front line. I assume their strength and the annoyance factor of them retreating and not routing is the reason they are out in front?

I look forward to seeing how Manstein decides to break the wall.

Save for what? There are no paradrops allowed by house rule. Not to mention these bad boys hardly ever route and if you were playing with paradrops you get a ton in Dec 41. Anything and everything is cannon fodder except for Armor & MOT units to delay the Germans. Armor/Mot should be saved/preserved since they have SOOOOO many trucks in them and to loose them by being surrounded is just bad play imho. Pull the Armor/Mot units out of the main line and have them 4th line or guarding cities. If you have to in the early game let the Germans eat open land instead of you armor/Mot units.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Yes no paradrops so para's are just infantry. They are only about 2500 men each. Difficult to break and have as much glue as full blown division. They are there to suck up MP/gas and to annoy. I am very curious as to see what he does in T3. If I were playing Pelton I would probably have less at the land bridge and more at Pskov. I know nothing of Manstein63's style so I am fumbling around in the dark a bit.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by chaos45 »

either way your fine, short of you making a massive mistake you are already in fine shape. He is further behind than most Germans already, time he can never make up for.

You opening the pocket in the north and his opening in the south that failed to pinch off Lvov were both massive mistakes he wont recover from.

The German opening needs to be flawless to really stress the Soviets. He will put some pressure on you but short of you letting him snag an entire Soviet front I doubt you will have much to worry about and thats just the honest truth of how the game plays out.

A flawless German opening is very hard for the soviets to recover from, but they still have the ability to recover. A flawed German opening almost seals the game as an auto German loss most likely sooner than historical.

His opening has most likely cost him 2 turns already.......which means you will have fewer losses and thus prevent more losses in the future by the time he stresses you again....the rich get richer as the game goes.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by RKhan »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Girshwin

I've read in some AARs that the Soviet paratroop units are important to save. I notice here they are screening the front line. I assume their strength and the annoyance factor of them retreating and not routing is the reason they are out in front?

I look forward to seeing how Manstein decides to break the wall.

Save for what? There are no paradrops allowed by house rule. Not to mention these bad boys hardly ever route and if you were playing with paradrops you get a ton in Dec 41. Anything and everything is cannon fodder except for Armor & MOT units to delay the Germans. Armor/Mot should be saved/preserved since they have SOOOOO many trucks in them and to loose them by being surrounded is just bad play imho. Pull the Armor/Mot units out of the main line and have them 4th line or guarding cities. If you have to in the early game let the Germans eat open land instead of you armor/Mot units.
ule. Not to mention these bad boys hardly ever route and if you were playing with paradrops you get a ton in Dec 41. Anything and everything is cannon fodder except for Armor & MOT units to delay the Germans. Armor/Mot should be saved/preserved since they have SOOOOO many trucks in them and to loose them by being surrounded is just bad play imho. Pull the Armor/Mot units out of the main line and have them 4th line or guarding cities. If you have to in the early game let the Germans eat open land instead of you armor/Mot units.

You can of course convert them to guard divisions later which is a good reason to save them if possible. However, I understand that in 1941 anything you can throw under the panzers to slow them down is desperately needed.
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Hunter63
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Hunter63 »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

either way your fine, short of you making a massive mistake you are already in fine shape. He is further behind than most Germans already, time he can never make up for.

You opening the pocket in the north and his opening in the south that failed to pinch off Lvov were both massive mistakes he wont recover from.

The German opening needs to be flawless to really stress the Soviets. He will put some pressure on you but short of you letting him snag an entire Soviet front I doubt you will have much to worry about and thats just the honest truth of how the game plays out.

A flawless German opening is very hard for the soviets to recover from, but they still have the ability to recover. A flawed German opening almost seals the game as an auto German loss most likely sooner than historical.

His opening has most likely cost him 2 turns already.......which means you will have fewer losses and thus prevent more losses in the future by the time he stresses you again....the rich get richer as the game goes.

He can recover, but only if he understands the logistical side of things.

Looking at the newest round of AAR's humans are looking at pocketing units more then taking ground. The change in infantry morale/MP's is an game changer for turns 4-7. Most players don't understand logistics system, but are grinders. Allot of the latest ruleset changes have helped in the grinding area of combat.

If he can't brake Germans during turns 8-13 then yes its over late 43 early 44 as the newest changes make the Russian side way way over powered 43+. The smaller the Russian army 43+ the better as the rule changes coupled with hard coded 30% shift in CV from morale means 40+ MP's for mobile units even with -30% of needed trucks.

4 million Germans vs 6 million Russians in 1943 means very little as the game is all about morale aka quality of troops.

Hopefully 2.0 is play tested properly from 43-45 as we all know from our own playing of 1.0 an the years of rule changes WitE 1.0 was never properly tested before release. Even morveal + company struggle to get it balanced.

They for sure have made it playable, but its clearly not balanced yet. The size of the OOB's have little effect on CV's.

I only play H vs AI and these changes effect all games not just HvH
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: Hunter63


[I only play H vs AI and these changes effect all games not just HvH

Are you sure? I note that you only joined the forum 3 days ago and your posts read remarkably like Pelton's and not like those of a newbie. I don't believe that anyone else has found a problem with HQ displacement (as per your post in Brian's AAR vs Pelton) in a game vs the AI. As I understand it, the so-called bug causing the displacement of soviet HQs and SUs which was squashed in the last beta, just allowed the german player access to the russian army so it enabled the german player deliberately to mess with russian units. Not something the AI did on its own.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by 821Bobo »

As I understand it, the so-called bug causing the displacement of soviet HQs and SUs which was squashed in the last beta, just allowed the german player access to the russian army so it enabled the german player deliberately to mess with russian units.

Can not believe that Pelton could have degraded to such level.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by sillyflower »

I worded what I wrote very carefully. By definition, an understanding may be wrong, and it would be nice for once if I am, but there are those who know for sure.

If it is an AI bug then hopefully Hunter will report it on tech forum and let them have some saves so that it can become an ex-problem.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet T3 (3rd July 1941) Clear

Well I expected a at least a probe somewhere between Pskov and Mogilev this turn. It did not arise. My opponent is obviously refueling and probably waiting for infantry support as well before making his next move.

He is creeping up to my line on a broad front, his mech units spread right across the line, keeping me guessing to his real intent. He is rather stealthy.

I railed out all industry from Kiev and Mogilev.

For some reason that escapes me my stack of units at the southern end of the Janis line refuse to dig. NKVD units are in transit….

I have a feeling all hell will break loose this coming turn. I feel a little nervous… this is good. Now we wait.


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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

Bit of a delay on the next turn as I will be away from my PC for a week or so.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

For some reason that escapes me my stack of units at the southern end of the Janis line refuse to dig. NKVD units are in transit….

I think it's because they freeze, and frozen units don't dig.
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

But the other two stacks directly north are digging and are frozen?

Anyway see you in a week [:)]
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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet T4 – 10th July 1941 (Clear)

The Panzers are on the move again.

All the action is in the North. 4th PG penetrates our lines south of Pskov to a depth or some 40 miles, local counterattacks (red arrows) drive back a couple of Mot Regiments.

It appears 3rd PG is driving for V Luki. Another deepish penetration of some 50 miles. We rush in a new army and draw some extra troops in from north and south of the bulge.

At this stage no real pressure is being applied to the land bridge or to its south.

In AGS 1st PG and friends are loitering in the vicinity of Kiev. I expect a push across the Dnepr this coming turn.


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RE: Razing the Reich II (no Manstein63)

Post by Michael T »

I am perplexed as to why these guys (yellow circle) won’t dig? Is there something weird going on with this hex?

If they don’t dig this turn I am going to report as a potential bug.


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