I need Help - AI Testing
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Do you mean save slot 001 and 002?....GP
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RE: I need Help - AI Testing
ORIGINAL: General Patton
Do you mean save slot 001 and 002?....GP
Correct, I'm sorry. I should have been much more descriptive. The saved games went into the 001 and 003 saved game slots. And now that I type that, that seems weird. I don't think I'm supposed to be able to save to the 001 saved game slot. The 002 is the Pre-turn, which has nothing of the previous combat turns in my Ironman games. But as I said, it works on the 001 and 002 scenarios. It's only on the 010 scenario that I have problems. I have not tried the 102 scenario yet. Perhaps I'll try that & see what works, and what does not.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Weird this is the latest with the working version of script 2 still testing it myself but just in case it helps
ps I have said it before I really recmmmend helping the allies a bit in these scens (a large selection of ironman Allied Naval and Air units as well as aircraft have been left IN the scen files but disabled to make it easier to add in.
I play on 4 day turns un less something important is happening and I recently was in deep crap by Oct 42 v this script with a few extra allied toys.....
ps I have said it before I really recmmmend helping the allies a bit in these scens (a large selection of ironman Allied Naval and Air units as well as aircraft have been left IN the scen files but disabled to make it easier to add in.
I play on 4 day turns un less something important is happening and I recently was in deep crap by Oct 42 v this script with a few extra allied toys.....
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RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Thanks. I'll try to find some time this weekend to fire this new one up.
Cheers,
CC
Cheers,
CC
Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
ps I mean what I say Tier 3 is almost an AI autovictory in 42 without some allied help depending on what kind of game you want to play some help is advised.
I really hadnt realised how annoying the marauding japanese raiders were until I had to hunt them down and extermiante them myself
I really hadnt realised how annoying the marauding japanese raiders were until I had to hunt them down and extermiante them myself
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
I can't imagine how tough it is playing four day turns.[X(]
I usually play 1 day turns for the first day; then 2 day turns thereafter. Just playing 2 day days from day 1 increases the difficulty factor so much!
I usually play 1 day turns for the first day; then 2 day turns thereafter. Just playing 2 day days from day 1 increases the difficulty factor so much!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
AI allow myself to step down to 1 or 2 day turns or interupt a turn via F9 key if something happens so its not totally crazy
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Just curious, did you tweak Japanese aircraft performance? I'm getting to August in this little gem ( and having a BLAST btw) and noticing Zeros, as well as Rufes, climbing at well over 4000 FPM, and up to a B-17's max altitude of 36k. I've lost entire bomb groups to fighters on CAP at 8-10000 ft with 6 minutes warning [&:]
Not complaining (any more than the typical AFB would [:D] ) Just curious as to what is going on.
Not complaining (any more than the typical AFB would [:D] ) Just curious as to what is going on.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Nope not a lot a little speed up I think but nothing dramatic - yet.....
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Anyone playing scen 1 or 2 feedback would be helpfull
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
I think I have articulated a few times that I am working on a new revised base Ai to try and reduce the waste in the AI or at least minimise it.
The background was the old WITP AI was much maligned as being too easy too predictable not worth playing too passive etc etc.
I don't actually agree with that what they achieved with what they had for a game of this compeity was spectacular
When we went into developing the AI for AE we tried to make it more dynamic but in essence because we couldn't get it to work
ended up reverting to a scripted AI which in essence has meant everyone has been playing me via proxy of the Ai for a number of years !!!
To try to get a bit of shock and awe in the AE AI I realised quite quickly that given time a player can set up roadblocks in bases that will stop the AI
taking "must take" bases
So as we got closer and closer to Gold the AI kept getting more and more aggressive as I ramped up the pressure and raided HI and other theatres for resources to
try and keep up the skeer while the Allies were weak.
For about 6 months after release all those years ago this worked and worked well - we are all used to the AI now and probably don't remember the initial shock when the AI
went back to PH for a 2nd strike - or hit PM in Dec 41 - or tried the Mersing Gambit or or or
However there was a price to the aggression
As players learned the game some or most of those early AI "lunges" and not fully supported invasions or the AI's tendency not to provide sufficient escorts made them horribly vulnerable
So after 6 months the Ai became a punchbag in Scen 1 and Scen 2
So the began my Ironman series where I give the AI enough resources to kaje a hit and keep swinging.
Anyway the reason for going through all this is that I have been working on a new baseline AI script I only have one variant so far and I need some folks to try it out while I keep testing
So I am attaching three scenarios to this thread
A New Scen 1
A new Scen 2
and a
new Tier 1 Ironman (i.e. Scen 10 equivalent where the AI does not get out right free stuff ie hidden supply but it does get large amounts of extra on map stuff and a much stronger starting
economy.
They all have the same AI script at present so I don't mind which scen people play but I need feedbhack to improve the script and KI simply don't have the time anymore to do it all myself.
So this is a plea for help
I will post the scenarios next
I need help on either assessing the scens so PBEM players telling whether especially Scen 2 is out of wack and the impact of the new bases
or
AI player telling me how the Ai plays out
Scen 1 (set to Scen 100) is in this post
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Hi Andy, I've been lurking in here for a while hoping to see an updated version of the scenarios in the first post, but if you are still looking for feedback I will start up a game playing as Japan in Scen 1 and hope to be able to provide some feedback as I (slowly) get along.
Cheers for all the work [&o]
Cheers for all the work [&o]
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
I'm slogging along into Oct '42, and having a ball. Thanks for putting this together [;)]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Anyone playing scen 1 or 2 feedback would be helpfull
Taking Scen2 out for a spin (Allies vs. Jap AI). To speed things up, I haven't done too much - put fighters on CAP, getting ships out of the more dangerous locations, put all subs into Patrol mode in the usual areas, and setting up a bunch of CS convoys. Very little movement of troops and no army bug outs.
Through the first 4 turns the AI is on the usual pace. One noticeable thing - there's a flood of Jap subs heading West from Pearl. Not sure if you can do anything to keep most of them on patrol there in the early going.
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Having gotten to '43, I can say no serious bugs found. I don't want to post much, for fear of ruining other peoples fun. And make no mistake, this IS the most fun for AI I have found in any WITP game.
One observation is the Rufe. As you note, you didn't change it. But I do think there may be more to it under the hood that is realized. And since it has limited exposure in other scenarios, perhaps no one has noticed. I have not flipped to look at the Japanese OOB, because I want the entire thing to stay as a surprise. So these guys may have been given 99 EXP or something. But I have seen over Lunga a group of 20 Rufes on CAP at 6000 ft climb above 11 B-17E's with @ 61 EXP at 35000 ft with 6 minutes warning, dive, and shoot every one of them down (August 8 1942). That was hard to take, especially since that is above the ceiling of a Rufe, and beyond their climb rate. I have seen 42 Rufes over Milne Bay intercept an alpha strike made by 5 carriers (Dec 25 1942), including 86 F4F-4's on Escort trained to @ 69 EXP on average, and literally gut the entire package (losses were around 40 to 1). That's a tough pill to swallow [X(] Everything else I can handle, but the Rufe, and how it performs in this game, is more like a MiG-25 [:-]
One observation is the Rufe. As you note, you didn't change it. But I do think there may be more to it under the hood that is realized. And since it has limited exposure in other scenarios, perhaps no one has noticed. I have not flipped to look at the Japanese OOB, because I want the entire thing to stay as a surprise. So these guys may have been given 99 EXP or something. But I have seen over Lunga a group of 20 Rufes on CAP at 6000 ft climb above 11 B-17E's with @ 61 EXP at 35000 ft with 6 minutes warning, dive, and shoot every one of them down (August 8 1942). That was hard to take, especially since that is above the ceiling of a Rufe, and beyond their climb rate. I have seen 42 Rufes over Milne Bay intercept an alpha strike made by 5 carriers (Dec 25 1942), including 86 F4F-4's on Escort trained to @ 69 EXP on average, and literally gut the entire package (losses were around 40 to 1). That's a tough pill to swallow [X(] Everything else I can handle, but the Rufe, and how it performs in this game, is more like a MiG-25 [:-]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Andy, once again I offer my thanks for working hard to make a better AI. I'm a bit late maybe to add some observations but I'll offer a few if it helps:
- more bases in Australia! Nice. I noticed Reid River has a level 1 port, but unable to sail to it (like Nadzab). Anxious to see how AI uses these extra bases here and Burma...
- Force Z not spotted/targeted so I sailed back to Sing where 23 unescorted Nells were downed by 22 Buff on 12/8. So Force Z survives!
- At PH, x5 BB's survived thru 12/8... On 12/8 Cmb Flt had weak strike 8 Zeros/22 Kates, but were destroyed. Lihue was hit by 19 Zeros/15 Vals. It now sits 8 hexes to the w/nw of Pearl.
- have AI on 'Historical' difficulty.
A few more later.
- more bases in Australia! Nice. I noticed Reid River has a level 1 port, but unable to sail to it (like Nadzab). Anxious to see how AI uses these extra bases here and Burma...
- Force Z not spotted/targeted so I sailed back to Sing where 23 unescorted Nells were downed by 22 Buff on 12/8. So Force Z survives!
- At PH, x5 BB's survived thru 12/8... On 12/8 Cmb Flt had weak strike 8 Zeros/22 Kates, but were destroyed. Lihue was hit by 19 Zeros/15 Vals. It now sits 8 hexes to the w/nw of Pearl.
- have AI on 'Historical' difficulty.
A few more later.
Col. Mussbu
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
One more before I go...
on 12/9: johnston raided, KB sits 6 hexes to the north of it on 12/10 about 25 hexes due east of my CV forces raiding Wake invasion...
- Lex/Enter CV's launch air attack vs Jap invasion of Wake, 15 Rufe's vs 20 Buff/wildcats/34 SBD's, most Rufes shot down, many jap ships hit, but Wake is captured! I think I'll try to exit the area west of the Marshall's to evade the oncoming KB!!! Am I trapped?...[X(]
on 12/9: johnston raided, KB sits 6 hexes to the north of it on 12/10 about 25 hexes due east of my CV forces raiding Wake invasion...
- Lex/Enter CV's launch air attack vs Jap invasion of Wake, 15 Rufe's vs 20 Buff/wildcats/34 SBD's, most Rufes shot down, many jap ships hit, but Wake is captured! I think I'll try to exit the area west of the Marshall's to evade the oncoming KB!!! Am I trapped?...[X(]
Col. Mussbu
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
You shot down the Rufes? They went through my Buffalo's like they were paper airplanes [:(] I did have height advantage, I'm curious as to what you are doing that I am not [&:]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Just a normal CV strike w/fighters on 50% escort at 10k ft. I saw your earlier post about them, so I wanted to see for myself how this was played out. I wonder if their was an Andy update from your download to mine which was on 7/2?...ORIGINAL: Lecivius
You shot down the Rufes? They went through my Buffalo's like they were paper airplanes [:(] I did have height advantage, I'm curious as to what you are doing that I am not [&:]
Col. Mussbu
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
Interesting. In my last example I had a carefully hoarded & trained group of F4F-4 fighters escorting a group towards some shipping around Milne. The fighters had @ 69 EXP a2A and some good defensive EXP as well, but the entire raid just got shredded. Maybe I will look on the other side. I just would hate to until after I 'run the table'. It would take a lot of the fun away [:(]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
RE: I need Help - AI Testing
As I move forward in my game I'll stay attuned to the Rufie issue. I'm on 12/10/42 (a 5 hour turn!)...
Did Andy update this since your download?
Did Andy update this since your download?
Col. Mussbu
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"