Most missused and waste of resources....WW2 ships

[Alpha77]

a) Yamato class
b) Bismark class
c) I 400 "super" subs with only 3 planes to launch
d) Scharnhorst class
e) Oyodo&Agana CLs


Agreed with the ranking and you wanna add something ? [;)]

I wanna add that Yamato are even worse in game than in reality. This is because they will fire their main batteries against cargo ships and small combatants. Your ammo will be gone quite fast, then you need a huge port to reload them. And while doing all this you burn much fuel sailing around uselessly for maybe the sinking of some AKs / AKLs and 2-3 escorts with your "wonder weapon ship" [8|]

[geofflambert]

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

This is my own list.

Re. the subs I have read (and watched a docu at youtube) about them. Seems they were another idea from Yama - US - moto to help the allied effort [:D] Just read up a bit, they used many resources, the planes were specially designed for them and had not much other uses, the pilots needed special training, the subs were too big and handled badly etc. etc. All this hassle to get 3 planes to some point perhaps 5000km away [:)]

You mean building more Stugs or Marders as they were much more cost effective then "Elephants" which were another waste.

For e) these ships are too big for not enough punch. Build some good escorts instead (starting in 43 there were some good designs)

[Revthought]

6. Operation Crossroads

[Revthought]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

Or consider tank designs that aren't over complicated requiring many more steps in production than your enemies do. Then saving the steel might have been worth it.

Also, I sort of disagree. Just because these ships were not utilized for comerece raiding as designed for fear of losing them, does not make them a waste. Similarly, Bismark... I'm not a big fan of single ship fleet-in-beings. I like from a strategic perspective that the Kreigsmarine tried to us her. Had she made it into the Atlantic it would have been a big deal.

Really, there was no other use for her, she was constructed as part of a broad naval building project, but the war came well before that project was complete, but after she was nearly complete. If you are going to use her for anything but a bomber magnet then commerce raiding was it.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

This is my own list.

Re. the subs I have read (and watched a docu at youtube) about them. Seems they were another idea from Yama - US - moto to help the allied effort [:D] Just read up a bit, they used many resources, the planes were specially designed for them and had not much other uses, the pilots needed special training, the subs were too big and handled badly etc. etc. All this hassle to get 3 planes to some point perhaps 5000km away [:)]

You mean building more Stugs or Marders as they were much more cost effective then "Elephants" which were another waste.

For e) these ships are too big for not enough punch. Build some good escorts instead (starting in 43 there were some good designs)

Gotcha. The subs with one plane are invaluable, though. You interpreted me correctly, Stugs and Marders better use of steel.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Revthought

6. Operation Crossroads

Isn't that the original plan for North Africa that got scrapped because the Allies were in no way prepared to pull it off?

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Revthought

6. Operation Crossroads

Isn't that the original plan for North Africa that got scrapped because the Allies were in no way prepared to pull it off?

Wiki says: Operation Crossroads was a pair of nuclear weapon tests conducted by the United States at Bikini Atoll in mid-1946. They were the first nuclear weapon tests since Trinity in July 1945, and the first detonations of nuclear devices since the atomic bombing of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945. The purpose of the tests was to investigate the effect of nuclear weapons on warships.

Does not count is NOT WW2. [:)]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

This is my own list.

Re. the subs I have read (and watched a docu at youtube) about them. Seems they were another idea from Yama - US - moto to help the allied effort [:D] Just read up a bit, they used many resources, the planes were specially designed for them and had not much other uses, the pilots needed special training, the subs were too big and handled badly etc. etc. All this hassle to get 3 planes to some point perhaps 5000km away [:)]

You mean building more Stugs or Marders as they were much more cost effective then "Elephants" which were another waste.

For e) these ships are too big for not enough punch. Build some good escorts instead (starting in 43 there were some good designs)

The I-400s were supposed to operate in a pack of about six subs to send a flight of 18 Seiran torpedo bombers to attack shipping in the Panama Canal area where there was little fighter defence. Alternatively attacking a mainland USA port was considered, or shipping just leaving the port but out of range of LBA Fighters.

The concept was innovative, would have caused a lot of disruption for a while until the Allies put in place counter-measures. This was the same situation as Bismarck which was meant to team up with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau to raid convoys at a time when the Allies had too few big ships to guard all their vulnerable points.

I disagree on the Aganos. These light cruisers were the first modern style light cruisers that Japan built with turreted guns, and their displacement was on par with the successful Ajax type light cruisers built by Britain. The Aganos had one less 6" gun turret because the Japanese preferred to have several float planes on their cruisers instead. They were completed too late to be used in the night surface battles in the Solomons but would likely have done well there.
Yahagi took an incredible seven torpedoes and lots of bomb hits before she sank (during Yamato's last voyage).

Oyodo was supposed to be a kind of command ship so she was larger than her armament alone required. Using a CL as a fleet command vessel would have been much more fuel efficient than sailing the admiral around on a battleship.

The Aganos and Oyodo suffered from the universal Japanese weakness - poor AA gun types.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

This is my own list.

Re. the subs I have read (and watched a docu at youtube) about them. Seems they were another idea from Yama - US - moto to help the allied effort [:D] Just read up a bit, they used many resources, the planes were specially designed for them and had not much other uses, the pilots needed special training, the subs were too big and handled badly etc. etc. All this hassle to get 3 planes to some point perhaps 5000km away [:)]

You mean building more Stugs or Marders as they were much more cost effective then "Elephants" which were another waste.

For e) these ships are too big for not enough punch. Build some good escorts instead (starting in 43 there were some good designs)

The I-400s were supposed to operate in a pack of about six subs to send a flight of 18 Seiran torpedo bombers to attack shipping in the Panama Canal area where there was little fighter defence. Alternatively attacking a mainland USA port was considered, or shipping just leaving the port but out of range of LBA Fighters.

The concept was innovative, would have caused a lot of disruption for a while until the Allies put in place counter-measures. This was the same situation as Bismarck which was meant to team up with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau to raid convoys at a time when the Allies had too few big ships to guard all their vulnerable points.

I disagree on the Aganos. These light cruisers were the first modern style light cruisers that Japan built with turreted guns, and their displacement was on par with the successful Ajax type light cruisers built by Britain. The Aganos had one less 6" gun turret because the Japanese preferred to have several float planes on their cruisers instead. They were completed too late to be used in the night surface battles in the Solomons but would likely have done well there.
Yahagi took an incredible seven torpedoes and lots of bomb hits before she sank (during Yamato's last voyage).

Oyodo was supposed to be a kind of command ship so she was larger than her armament alone required. Using a CL as a fleet command vessel would have been much more fuel efficient than sailing the admiral around on a battleship.

The Aganos and Oyodo suffered from the universal Japanese weakness - poor AA gun types.

I agree... I even find them useful enough in-game to accelerate the Aganos. They're the only "extra" cruisers that you get. They may not be as good as other cruisers, but they're still cruisers.

[BillBrown]

I think a nod needs to go to the Alaska class CB. It never really had a defined role.

[Orm]

Bismarck could have been help back until Tirpitz was operational. What if they then had been based in northern Norway and threatened the arctic convoys? And what if Scharnhorst or Gneisenau joined up. If they had managed to close down the arctic convoys for a extended period then the resources would have been well spent.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Revthought

6. Operation Crossroads

Isn't that the original plan for North Africa that got scrapped because the Allies were in no way prepared to pull it off?

Wiki says: Operation Crossroads was a pair of nuclear weapon tests conducted by the United States at Bikini Atoll in mid-1946. They were the first nuclear weapon tests since Trinity in July 1945, and the first detonations of nuclear devices since the atomic bombing of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945. The purpose of the tests was to investigate the effect of nuclear weapons on warships.

Does not count is NOT WW2. [:)]

Prinz Eugene took it like a champ.

[geofflambert]

For those of you who don't know, In Germany Eugene is pronounced oy-gain (roughly).

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I think a nod needs to go to the Alaska class CB. It never really had a defined role.

If they had been available at the beginning of the war, I can define a role for them: Blow the crap out of the IJN CAs at Savo Island.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Revthought

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are you referencing a list someone else made? Anyways Yamato and Musashi would have been better if they were CVs as long as the IJN was producing air crews in excess of replacement requirements. Germany, U-boats and long ranged surface raiders are the only things that make sense. I don't get the I-400 reference and "only 3 planes". Should they have had a squadron of Zeroes? Scharnhorst class, see previous reference and consider building more Panzer IVs or "Elephants" instead. I don't know enough about e) to comment.

Or consider tank designs that aren't over complicated requiring many more steps in production than your enemies do. Then saving the steel might have been worth it.

Also, I sort of disagree. Just because these ships were not utilized for comerece raiding as designed for fear of losing them, does not make them a waste. Similarly, Bismark... I'm not a big fan of single ship fleet-in-beings. I like from a strategic perspective that the Kreigsmarine tried to us her. Had she made it into the Atlantic it would have been a big deal.

Really, there was no other use for her, she was constructed as part of a broad naval building project, but the war came well before that project was complete, but after she was nearly complete. If you are going to use her for anything but a bomber magnet then commerce raiding was it.

warspite1

Except of course she was not a single-ship fleet in being. Her sister Tirpitz was being completed and, at the time of her sinking Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Lutzow, Scheer, Hipper and Prinz Eugen were still around.

The simple fact was, the German surface ships in WWII were only really useful as a fleet in being that kept ships, desperately needed in the Med and later the Indian Ocean, tied up at Scapa.

Compared to what the U-boats - and even the auxiliary cruisers - achieved in terms of merchant ships sunk, the surface ships were a waste of time and effort.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

For those of you who don't know, In Germany Eugene is pronounced oy-gain (roughly).

It's closer to "way-ghen" since the eu starts the word, with a hard G (like gift, not gel), but yes.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I think a nod needs to go to the Alaska class CB. It never really had a defined role.

If they had been available at the beginning of the war, I can define a role for them: Blow the crap out of the IJN CAs at Savo Island.

The Alaska class took so long to build because the 12" turrets had to be designed from scratch. They could have been available as much as 2 years earlier otherwise (still too late for Guadalcanal).

I read that FDR was the main driver for the 6 Alaska ships that were laid down (4 being canceled). I wonder how many tons of high tensile steel (not to mention the human labor) went into them compared to the 4 Yamato class ships. The 4th Yamato never got very far before being canceled.

Either way the amount of wasted resources for the BBs and BCs was tremendous.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

For those of you who don't know, In Germany Eugene is pronounced oy-gain (roughly).

It's closer to "way-ghen" since the eu starts the word, with a hard G (like gift, not gel), but yes.

warspite1

No not WAY - its OY

[geofflambert]

I think 11" would have been entirely adequate on the Alaskas. Do you think that might have gone faster?