DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER.

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ericv
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by ericv »

hopefully this time w/o any bugs. Good luck
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sillyflower
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

I have just sent back my T1 in our new game. G turn much as before but I have now analysed it. He killed 500 more a/c than last time butt his ground losses were slightly higer (over 7K!) and mine down by about 5K to 283K.

2 things R player must track all the time:

1 G rail heads. Easy but tedious as it means mousing over all the possible converted rail lines.This is the most important thing to do.
2 the panzers though this is not always easy.

He's only advanced 2 FBDs into my lands - the usual one in the north and the one going to Kaunas. No sign of the other 2 so I suspect that they are both going to Romania.

Michael's armour seems to be concentrated more in the centre than 'usual. Only 46 PzK and 10 mot + the cav xx from 24 PzK went south. Nothing from 3 PzG seems to have gone to help AGN (only 6 Pz xx crossed the river at Daugavpils) but I can't be certain. Moscow is clearly his no.1 priority and i'm expecting a secondary thrust via V. Like which can also go N to cut off L.grad.

In the south he pocketed the high class inf cluster S of Rovno but went no further. In the centre and south I've relied on the river lines and poor terrain to slow him down. In the south, I particularly try to stop AGS linking through to the rail head in Romania. I will post these pics after I have T2 back and will explore my thinking further then.

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sillyflower
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

AGN

Image


I rather enjoyed opening up the small pocket at the top. I had to rail in a weak tank xx (is this a first?) and sailed a sec x to try to stop him taking the port of Venlo. Unfortunately, I disbanded Venlo's fort before I came up with my cunning plan. I hope I'm not chucking good troops after bad and that I can get the tanks back out of Venlo. I couldn't use the inf xx in Riga and get it back there. He's sent a lot of inf up that coastline and so I hope the will be much delayed especially his 2 isolated inf divs. Most of his other inf also face a trek through hostile territory unless they go the long way via Daugavpils which is a long way from Pskov.

In case some of you are wondering why I have the vanilla map, it's because I followed Morvael's advice to re-install the game so I could install the hotfix. I decided not to reinstall Jison's map mod for now because it has 1 major disadvantage. It doesn't enable you to see the fuel states of enemy vehicles. Given that HQBU now puts all the fuel into the divisions, I really need that intelligence.

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Manstein63
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by Manstein63 »

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

In case some of you are wondering why I have the vanilla map, it's because I followed Morvael's advice to re-install the game so I could install the hotfix. I decided not to reinstall Jison's map mod for now because it has 1 major disadvantage. It doesn't enable you to see the fuel states of enemy vehicles. Given that HQBU now puts all the fuel into the divisions, I really need that intelligence.

Jison's map mod should only change the map itself not the units, if you do use his unit mod you can still see the supply & fuel status it's just not as easy to spot that's all. 3 lines next to the unit symbol full supply/fuel 2 lines less supply/fuel 1 line limited supply/fuel no lines either no supply or not a high enough recon level.

Anyway good luck with this, and remember losing to an Antipodean will be tantamount to failing to win the Ashes or a Rugby Test Series [:-] [:-]. So no pressure.

Manstein63
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sillyflower
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

I know this is how it should be, but my experience is that it only shows my units' fuel - never yours!
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Manstein63
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by Manstein63 »

Take a look at your 1st attempt for this game, it clearly shows the fuel status of German units some of the units are not shown because you have not a high enough recon value for them

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HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

1 G rail heads. Easy but tedious as it means mousing over all the possible converted rail lines.This is the most important thing to do.

The above point that can not be overstated! Having said that you mentioned that he is sending one FBD North as usual. IMHO Michael has already lost valuable time by not making sure the swamp hex X54 Y42 stayed clear. Strategically this hex is so important for rail conversion going North that I will intentionally route units remotely close to this hex away. The game is all about logistics first and foremost and every opportunity to delay that forward movement needs to be taken as a Soviet player as you did by occupying hex x54 y42. It doesnt look like much but missing a hex here and there adds up.

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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

Indeed!
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

Take a look at your 1st attempt for this game, it clearly shows the fuel status of German units some of the units are not shown because you have not a high enough recon value for them

Manstein63

Hmmm

Maybe I'm just very silly
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HITMAN202
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by HITMAN202 »

The toll of your death knell hasn't begun. In fact, my friend, a B- 1st turn grade (a fair assessment of what a player with MT's skill- of which he is the only member presently - achieved) has been replaced with a poor repeat turn. With almost 25 units routed outside of pockets and a slow infantry push in AGN, I would give him a C- !!!

I feel strongly he will form a turn 2 pocket in the eastern Pripet and also try to form a unique pocket behind the sinyaya river line that his massed Pz at Minsk and at the western Dugava could achieve.

Stifling his FBD advance at the Rumanian borderline seems not to be worth the loss of additional units. Remember I am a ignoramus of Soviet strategy.

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sillyflower
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

Dr T - where did you get the figure of 25 units routed out of pockets from? Re the eastern pripyet, you may well be right but there isn't much to pocket there and panzers don't move fast in enemy marshland and it's slow to get out of too. My screenies don't show the R. Sinyaya but I have a checkerboard between that and him in both directions. The panzers around Minsk are too far away to help much. If he tries and fails, it does leave his armour in poor terrain in the middle of nowhere and a long way from any rail head.

Re Romania, if he's sent half of his FBDs there, then delaying them by a turn is a big deal. Lack of petrol down there due to distance is the Nazis' biggest problem. Delay requires slowing an AGS rush south behind the bad terrain which slows the FBDs to trap R forces there. I spent ages checking where his armour is and MPs. He would have enough to do it in T3 because all the T" releases will still have lots of petrol. As ever, the balance is between the gain and the loss.................

MT will have practiced the early turns many times and he will have a plan (+ lots of spreadsheets). That said, I expect to achieve my 1st objective which is to last until T11. I glad he didn't do to me what I did to Brian on T1 though.
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

I glad he didn't do to me what I did to Brian on T1 though.

The extended Lvov pocket is "V I C I O U S"!
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by HITMAN202 »

King's English is definitely too refined for us Yanks (more so a Mississippi redneck) but I think across the Atlantic we all use base 10 system when dealing with numbers (ie. one,two,three, etc) and counting units routed outside of pockets (again one,two,three,etc) I count 22. Seriously, it's far too many for a great Axis player.
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

King's English

Wouldn't it be the "Queens English" since there is a she as the ruling Monarch at the moment? [8D] Help another American out on this one ;-)
Seriously, it's far too many for a great Axis player.

I tend to agree but an old saying comes to mind, "Don't judge a book by its cover". I would like to see turn 2 through 4 to see this strat play out. Because by that time the writing is on the wall.
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
King's English

Wouldn't it be the "Queens English"

actually it's 'the Queen's English'
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

King's English is definitely too refined for us Yanks (more so a Mississippi redneck) but I think across the Atlantic we all use base 10 system when dealing with numbers (ie. one,two,three, etc) and counting units routed outside of pockets (again one,two,three,etc) I count 22. Seriously, it's far too many for a great Axis player.

There was Silly me thinking that you rednecks counted with your fingers, which is why many of you use base 12 although i understand that there is considerable variety between your communities [:'(]. I will have to wait for permission to look at MT's AAR before I can determine what base number you used .

I didn't see v. many routs when I opened the turn. Just looked at my T1 vs Brian and I counted 23 routs outside pockets (though 1 of these is trapped in my extended lockdown). May be others out of screenshots so that has to be a minimum number. I don't agree that the number of routs is important per se. It's the number of units trapped (not just pocketed) on T1 that matters. Both MT and I would have had fewer routs if we were less aggressive because then most of the units that we routed would not have been attacked. That can't be a better T1. When I have written that Pelton routs too many units in T1, it was because he routs out of pockets ones that should be pocketed.
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by HITMAN202 »

Again, great game with Brian. I thought Manstein did miracles in the Crimea.

The use of "Queen's English" is more precise and has a better ring to it, but I am technically correct to say "Kings English.' I would be exonerated by any court.

I vigorously disagree with you thoughts on turn1 routed units. MT stated he merely repeated moves, yet his second attempt had 7-9 more units routed out of pockets, 7-9 units, Sillyflower that you now have available to hold back the Axis push. This is a huge plus for you.

Look at his two screen shots of turn 1. The first posted showed 7 routed units in AGC pocket and 3 in pockets south of Brest Liv. In the second screenshot the is one. Only one. Granted there could have been 1 or 2 shattered units, but 8 or 9 ???

Pelton has a great post on a superior Axis turn 1, but it fails to focus on limiting routs. I will share more of my thoughts in a War Room post.
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sillyflower
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

Sorry, but the Queen's court would not exonerate you, nor would the court of public opinion. I suppose you would get away with it in USA because you never had the chance to speak the Queen's English only the King's - not that George's English was that good.....

I can't look at Michael's pics. I'm not allowed to look at his AAR! If more did escape, then that's a good thing. I will look at my screenies
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

from looking at my screenies, I don't think that there is a difference in the number of trapped units between the 2 starts.
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RE: DEATH OF A SILLYFLOWER. NO MICHAEL T

Post by sillyflower »

I don't think my original plan for this AAR will work as it would mean people having to avoid looking at MT's AAR as advice from someone who has would risk unfairness to Michael (and I'm not that desperate yet[:(]) or be disinformation which I don't need.

So I start with my response to my mis-judgement (or clusterf#ck as Clint Eastwood would rightly call it) in the south. All my own fault as I had predicted he would try to do this but didn't think he could - and failure could leave him a bit exposed
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