Refueling

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Chris21wen
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Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

Is it working as intended?

The TF is at Christmas Is unloading. DD Balch was in the red for fuel so I replenished the TF at sea. As you can see it's now got a full load of fuel despite the TF having the minimal refuel instruction?

If you replenish from port however it works correctly. Why the difference?


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HansBolter
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RE: Refueling

Post by HansBolter »

Lots of looks with no one venturing a reply so I'll take a shot.

I have a guess that the refuel orders apply to automatic refueling only.

Any time you force a manual refuel I 'think' it may override the limited refueling order.

Also refueling at sea would not have drawn any fuel from the port but rather from the stores of the AOs themselves.

Typically, without AOs in the hex, that order will shift fuel around between unit in one TF or between TFs leaving some with less than full fuel for the trade off.

With AOs in the hex the refueling comes from their stocks and you should have seen a significant drop in their stocks as a result.
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BBfanboy
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RE: Refueling

Post by BBfanboy »

I agree with HansBolter's assessment. The 250 ops points used by the AOs confirms that they refuelled each other.

Refuelling from other TFs "at sea" (even in a port hex) can be very useful for short-legged ships to use excess bunker fuel on long-legged ships and avoid using port fuel at destination e.g. if a TF of empty ships with lots more fuel in their tanks than needed ends up in the same hex as an outbound TF that needs a bit more fuel to make the round trip, use the "Refuel at Sea" option for the outbound TF and avoid having to top up using fuel at destination. It's all part of moving as much fuel forward as possible.

As for needing to refuel the DD, in future just transfer the DD into the port, then go to the "ships in port" screen and click on the refuel button. The DD will be refuelled without the AOs being refuelled, and you can transfer it back into the AO TF.
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Chris21wen
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

I don't disagree with anything you said.

Using the port refuelling option refuelled the DD only using the 'use minimal fuel instruction', i.e. it had 4000 odd fuel and not it's full load of 7500. 4000 would have been enough to get it back to LA. I've test various refuelling option on TF when refuelling from port and they all work as designed.

Using the at sea option refuelled the all ships from the AOs but totally ignored any 'refuelling instruction'. I've tested the at sea refuelling option on as many TFs as I can and the refuelling instructions always seems to be ignored, refuelling the low fuel ships to their max fuel capacity. In the pic below the PC has enough fuel to get to LA, just. If I refuel the TF irrespective of the refuelling instruction used it gets a full load as does the DM.

Is this a bug?



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Chris21wen
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

After refuelling with the 'do not refuel' set.



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NigelKentarus
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RE: Refueling

Post by NigelKentarus »

I don't think that you really refueled. You didn't take on additional fuel. With Replenish, I believe you just redistributed the fuel among the various ships in the TF. If you look, some TK's lost fuel, and some gained fuel. You didn't add more fuel to the TF than what it already had.
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BBfanboy
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RE: Refueling

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: NigelKentarus

I don't think that you really refueled. You didn't take on additional fuel. With Replenish, I believe you just redistributed the fuel among the various ships in the TF. If you look, some TK's lost fuel, and some gained fuel. You didn't add more fuel to the TF than what it already had.
Right - the ops points used confirm the fuel transfers. There was no need to top up anyway - the PC and DM would draw fuel from the other ships during the trip back to home base.
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Chris21wen
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: NigelKentarus

I don't think that you really refueled. You didn't take on additional fuel. With Replenish, I believe you just redistributed the fuel among the various ships in the TF. If you look, some TK's lost fuel, and some gained fuel. You didn't add more fuel to the TF than what it already had.
Right - the ops points used confirm the fuel transfers. There was no need to top up anyway - the PC and DM would draw fuel from the other ships during the trip back to home base.

A mute point. If one ship needs fuel and it takes it from another ship it's refuelling at sea. In this particular case I was just experimenting by forcing the issue to show that with 'do not refuel' set it can, same as the oiler TF (or any TF). 'Do not refuel' to me means exactly that. The other settings, such as 'minimum fuel', are harder to quantify as distance to homebase comes into the equation but in the case of the two examples I've shown neither should have resulted in a full load of fuel.
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BBfanboy
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RE: Refueling

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: NigelKentarus

I don't think that you really refueled. You didn't take on additional fuel. With Replenish, I believe you just redistributed the fuel among the various ships in the TF. If you look, some TK's lost fuel, and some gained fuel. You didn't add more fuel to the TF than what it already had.
Right - the ops points used confirm the fuel transfers. There was no need to top up anyway - the PC and DM would draw fuel from the other ships during the trip back to home base.

A mute point. If one ship needs fuel and it takes it from another ship it's refuelling at sea. In this particular case I was just experimenting by forcing the issue to show that with 'do not refuel' set it can, same as the oiler TF (or any TF). 'Do not refuel' to me means exactly that. The other settings, such as 'minimum fuel', are harder to quantify as distance to homebase comes into the equation but in the case of the two examples I've shown neither should have resulted in a full load of fuel.
Yeah, I get that you wanted to demonstrate that the "Do Not Refuel" could be overridden, but for newcomers who might not know all the possibilities I wanted to spell out the refuelling from other ships on the way home because:
-that does not require any intervention by the player to make it happen and
- because only the ships that need fuel and those providing to them will be involved rather than the whole convoy swapping fuel among themselves.
The fewer ships spending time in close proximity the better!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Chris21wen
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


Yeah, I get that you wanted to demonstrate that the "Do Not Refuel" could be overridden, but for newcomers who might not know all the possibilities I wanted to spell out the refuelling from other ships on the way home because:
-that does not require any intervention by the player to make it happen and
- because only the ships that need fuel and those providing to them will be involved rather than the whole convoy swapping fuel among themselves.
The fewer ships spending time in close proximity the better!

Don't I know the last line, lost two ships in three months due to collisions. Stupid ship captains how they got their masters ticket I'll never know. Can't sack them as they both went down with the ships.
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BBfanboy
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RE: Refueling

Post by BBfanboy »

Can't say I have ever had definite info that collisions occurred during refuelling at sea, but I am not taking any chances.
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rustysi
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RE: Refueling

Post by rustysi »

"Do Not Refuel" could be overridden

Its not, it only pertains to what the TF will do when at a base.
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
"Do Not Refuel" could be overridden

Its not, it only pertains to what the TF will do when at a base.

So are you saying that 'Do not refuel' only applies to refuelling form port and has no effect on refuelling from sea? It shouldn't if it does.
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rustysi
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RE: Refueling

Post by rustysi »

Well that's pretty much how it works. For instance if I have a TF docked at a port with the 'Do not fuel' option set I can hit 'refuel from port' all day and nothing will happen. As soon as I hit 'refuel at sea' it will refuel if there is a source to refuel from. This source can be another TF or even ships of the same TF. In the latter case fuel will just be transferred from ships that have it to those that are low. Also ships at sea will refuel from other ships in the TF whether you wish them to or not, provided they need fuel, and there's a source available within the TF. In addition you can check out 6.2.13.1 of the manual on p 106 for further info.
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Chris21wen
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Well that's pretty much how it works. For instance if I have a TF docked at a port with the 'Do not fuel' option set I can hit 'refuel from port' all day and nothing will happen. As soon as I hit 'refuel at sea' it will refuel if there is a source to refuel from. This source can be another TF or even ships of the same TF. In the latter case fuel will just be transferred from ships that have it to those that are low. Also ships at sea will refuel from other ships in the TF whether you wish them to or not, provided they need fuel, and there's a source available within the TF. In addition you can check out 6.2.13.1 of the manual on p 106 for further info.


I've been playing this game a long time and I can't say I've noticed this before but there again I'm getting old, perhaps it's always been there. Irrespective of the historical aspect, setting 'do not refuel' should mean exactly that no matter were the source of the fuel comes from.
Itdepends
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RE: Refueling

Post by Itdepends »

I bet you would change your tune when that large transport taffy you set to do not refuel, so that it doesnt use any fuel at it's destination- stops in the middle of the Pacific with the escorts out of fuel.
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RE: Refueling

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: Itdepends
I bet you would change your tune when that large transport taffy you set to do not refuel, so that it doesnt use any fuel at it's destination- stops in the middle of the Pacific with the escorts out of fuel.
"Do not refuel" does not prevent escorts from refuelling enroute
Itdepends
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RE: Refueling

Post by Itdepends »

I was replying to the previous post RE do not refuel regardless of source.
Chris21wen
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RE: Refueling

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

I bet you would change your tune when that large transport taffy you set to do not refuel, so that it doesnt use any fuel at it's destination- stops in the middle of the Pacific with the escorts out of fuel.

If I was stupid enough to do that, yes. But you obviously have not been following the thread, it's about refuelling instructions at sea and not just 'do not refuel'.
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RE: Refueling

Post by LoBaron »

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: rustysi
"Do Not Refuel" could be overridden

Its not, it only pertains to what the TF will do when at a base.

So are you saying that 'Do not refuel' only applies to refuelling form port and has no effect on refuelling from sea? It shouldn't if it does.

'Do not refuel' means 'Do not increase TF net fuel by removing it from an external source'. Obviously this does not apply to any fuel transfer of ships within the TF.
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