Bases/stations and fuel delivery woes - how to solve?

[jacozilla]

So couple quick disclaimers -
a) Finally gotten to point where I feel semi-comfortable custom designing my own private sector designs, including reasonably armed mining stations to help protect themselves, be early warning canaries in the coal mine with long range sensors, etc
b) I am big on using energy collectors to cover the minimum static energy cost + reasonable bit more just to be sure the solar radiation fall off still has my total energy collector = more than static cost
c) I design my bases/stations with collectors to cover static cost + 1 single fuel cell + enough reactors to cover my total active energy per second use

So that said, my question and problem now is I can't seem to ever get fuel deliveries to these stations. I look at my station, and my fuel status gauge reads 0 because I haven't gotten any fuel deliveries. Hence, my stations are gimped on firepower because the only way they can produce energy to recharge shields and fire weapons is the trickle energy left over from the static collectors.

1 - on planet based stations this is zero issue. Due to stations over planets not needing cargo bay and all cargo being shared with planet cargo, I get instant refills of fuel - so all of the above does not apply to my planet based stations, so I'm fine there.

2 - my non-planet based stations, basically my private sector mines, and my handful of research stations, are the issue

- I thought I would put more fuel cells on, but that does nothing to solve my problem. 1 fuel cell design or 10 fuel cell design, when it is built, it has zero fuel until someone supposedly delivers some fuel into their cargo, which yes I do build at least 1 cargo bay for all non-planet based stations

- So whenever a pirate attacks, my stations fire a little bit, but I see they are totally gimped because shields can't really recharge and the trickle energy from the collectors, while it seems to refill my energy bar fast, is still noticeably the limiting factor. All weapons are not firing, and shields are not recharging as fast as it could because energy is the bottle neck with no fuel cells

I thought the private sector was supposed to deliver fuel everywhere? AndI see I have plenty of freighters.

I thought at first this might be the example of logistics being hampered by spamming space ports everywhere, tying down your freighters in rushing small jobs all over the place. So to experiment I jus played couple games where I built only a very few spaceports, on my homeward and couple large pop planets I conquered. Everything else is starbases. Yet same issue.

So it appears it is not a lack of fuel delivery due to lack of transport being available. And I don't have a zillion stations either, I can see this effect very early in game when all I have are like literally 2 mines somewhere and I don't seem to get fuel delivery.

How is fuel supposed to get to these non-planet based stations? And/or how would I go about solving my energy gimp problem?

Should I just stack a ton of energy collectors and hope they can 100% power the station all by themselves?

[Bingeling]

I guess they don't request fuel deliveries, or their requests are never met.

Your options are probably energy collection in addition to the energy storage stat on your reactor (capacitor). Different reactors should have different energy storage properties, and adding another reactor adds more energy storage.

I would have a look at what kind of power is needed from fighters. Maybe they only have static cost? Pay attention to the energy drain by weapons, go for the less power hungry ones on your bases.

Which may be easier said than done, of course, you usually don't want to research an "extra weapon".

Personally I would never bother arming my "normal mines" and if I build a "fortress mine", I would use energy collection.

[RemoteLeg]

NB: I'm assuming you have reactors that require Caslon instead of reactors that require Hydrogen. Substitute as necessary.

Firstly, note that the energy collectors will only replenish your energy - not your fuel. They can prevent you burning fuel to replenish your energy, but they can't refill your fuel supply.
Even an Energy-to-fuel converter won't do that - it puts the fuel in your cargo bay instead of your fuel tank.

Perhaps you simply don't have enough Caslon mines to meet demand. Have a look on your Expansion Planner to see how much Caslon is listed under Unfulfilled Orders. If it's a high number, build more gas mines.

Okay - you've checked the availability of transports, so that's not the issue. How about proximity of the station to Caslon? If those transports have to travel multiple sectors to get gas to your station, I suggest building gas mines closer. The Energy-to-fuel converter can help if there are no sources of Caslon nearby.

Like Bingeling, I don't put weapons on mines. Sometimes I give mines in risky areas some shields so they can hold out until help arrives, but that's it. I rely on pickets of small fleets to patrol the area and protect them when required. If you're really worried, build a defensive base next to the mine.

Oh yes - one last thing you can check. Take a look at the design of your freighters. Perhaps update the design to make them faster, have more cargo space, and give them more range. I once played for several game years before I realized that the stupid AI didn't bother to put hyper-drive on my freighters so they were forced to make deliveries at sub-light speed.

[SilentHunter]

This game is really deep and I never realized it before. Played a year or so ago and uninstalled it because I could not get past the graphics, but another 4x space game recently got released and while it's OK it needs another year of DLC and patches before it will be good, made me fire back up DW and installed the unleashed extended mod,what a difference! Must say, I have renewed excitement for DW now and I'm finding the graphics to be acceptable and the game play to be unlike anything else out there. Came here because I'm not getting fuel either, had no idea I was under supplied until I read remotelegs post above about expansion planner, I only have 5.6K available and need 113K more, time to crash war research and go looking for a nearby source I guess. I must say I was an idiot for not sticking with this prior, it's like I just discovered a new game that many of you have been ranting about for years

Thank you
"Perhaps you simply don't have enough Caslon mines to meet demand. Have a look on your Expansion Planner to see how much Caslon is listed under Unfulfilled Orders. If it's a high number, build more gas mines."

[Bingeling]

Happy to hear you discovered the gem nature of this game.

The small flaw in your quoted tip is that "high number" is a rather weakly defined concept

To get an even better feel for the resource side of the game (in the form of fuel), it can be enlightening to pay some attention to the fuel shortage while the empire is still rather small. Use the ship list or just know that double clicking the selection panel with a ship/base selected will open it in the ship list GUI. Watch the cargo tab. Watch amount and reserved. In the case of as shortage, watch the few gas mines and notice they have almost no unreserved caslon, and that freighters leave with very little caslon in their cargo (as they can not get more). This can be more relevant in a larger empire, where shortages can be local. The "Unfulfilled" would not look too bad compared to the amount in store, but the fuel is not in the area of the shortage.

[Emperor0Akim]

"Perhaps you simply don't have enough Caslon mines to meet demand. Have a look on your Expansion Planner to see how much Caslon is listed under Unfulfilled Orders. If the number is much higher than In Transit or your Stock, build more gas mines."

Fixed.

Check your Transport Designs anyways
Even If the have Hyperdrives, maybe they do not have enough fuel capacity for the whole range you need -
just in case should be enough range for both ways.

Or the AI does not put enough Reactors on the Transporters for them to use the full speed of their hyperdrive.
Thats easy to check. Just click on a Transport in Transit and compare the speed to your actual Hyperdrive Speed.
And if they are out of Fuel its the upper problem.

I normally expand only by the way of fuel mines.

I check the area where I want to expand, then start by putting Gas Extractors on Caslon and Hydrogen Planets, preferably those with both or at least another gas. So I know once my Fleet can refuel there.

[Emperor0Akim]

Build more Caslon and Hydrogen mines. There is no thing as to much fuel.

I nearly forgot the Troll-Fix.

[Hattori Hanzo]

this Gas Mines discussion has enlightened me [X(]

[SilentHunter]

I thought i had it but I don't , so the private sector will build gas mining ships to gather caslon, but if I build a gas mining station they no longer collect. I can't build transports, or don't have the technology yet, is the transport a private sector ship that the AI builds? If yes they won't build any.
So I'm confused now, without the gas mining station I have some supply coming in but with a gas mining station nothing is picking it up.

[Emperor0Akim]

The Transport is a Private Ship.
Its basically THE private Ship

It comes in three flavours. Small, Medium and Large. If the private Sector builds Mining Ships, the have the technology to build Transporters.

Transporter = Miner - Mining Equipment

Aaah. A small communication Error. Ingame they are called Freighters *ggg* I just checked to look up the ship category in the "ships&bases" window

[Bingeling]

ORIGINAL: SilentHunter

I thought i had it but I don't , so the private sector will build gas mining ships to gather caslon, but if I build a gas mining station they no longer collect. I can't build transports, or don't have the technology yet, is the transport a private sector ship that the AI builds? If yes they won't build any.
So I'm confused now, without the gas mining station I have some supply coming in but with a gas mining station nothing is picking it up.

As said above, it is called freighters in the game. The AI should build some as long as you have a spaceport, and build more for each colony you expand the empire with. The single reason I can thing of for having none, is that you have been very creative in ship design and only have freighter designs that are to large to build at the current tech level.

If they are picking up nothing, they are doing something else. In the case of a fuelshortage, they may be busy heading to a far away "foreign" colony that you know of to refuel. While out of fuel.

Open the ships and bases screen. Select freighters in the pulldown/Filter. Sort by their mission. Click on them and you can view their cargo, but also see their location on a tiny map in the screen.

The mining ships are small players in the total resource situation, but can get you the critical little bits that you miss. When you for example got not mines at all. What they target should be decided by the AI from what is thinks is most important.

Also, on the gas mining station. Is there any cargo? Is it all reserved? If it is a large amount that is reserved, there are probably freighters somewhere heading in to pick it up. Pay attention to the reserve flag and see if it is reserved by your empire, and if it is, it is either refuelers or freighters with transport orders.

To see what civilians (in flight) are actually up to, enabling the civilian travel vectors help. It is one of the checkboxes above the minimap. They will only show at the somewhat zoomed in zoom levels.

[SilentHunter]

That was it Bingeling, the small freighter design was too big, it was 252 and could be 200, removed some part and they immediately started building. Thank you

[Hattori Hanzo]

when you have a doubt, ask Bingeling.. a sure bet.. [:D]

[Data]

Let's not sing praises to the man...he's just brilliant, that's all

[AcePylut]

I think I may have a noob tip from a noob to “get an idea of what you might need” while trying to wrap your arms around this game….
Pre-Warp, starter system had about 5 planets and 5 or so moons. The resources were “varied enough” to just build a miner at everything and see what happens. After a while, I noticed that what appeared to be 80-90 percent of all my private freights were going to one mining station. I wondered why. So I looked at that planet, and it was the only planet that had a necessary resource my fledgling star system required. It gave me the idea that as I expand, if I notice one planet or mining station is getting a majority of the freighters, look at what that planet has.

Of course, this also lead me to start clicking around the Expansion Planner and seeing how to find this information, and hopefully estimate what I need for future planning (as right now, my mind is “behind” the game, I need to get my mind “in front” of the game). I docketed this little question (why are all my freighters going to one planet in this system?) so that in the future, when I have a galaxy spanning empire and am looking around all my conquests, if I see system where all my freighters are going to one mining station, I’ll see what’s special about that planet/moon and work to acquiring “more” planets/moons with that resource.

I hope the “bee-line” of freighters info I’m putting into my head now, works that way in the future. It’s could be, for me, a really quick visual nugget of info for what my empire needs.

But wtf do I know, I just got the Gerax drive and am busy converting all my warp ships to this drive. It zooms!

[Bingeling]

In the future, a "bee line" of freighters is more likely a result of a major fuel shortage. They are searching for fuel and there is only one possible source (like an independent crawling with pirates, that they for some reason believe is a good refueling spot.

If they are not hunting fuel, the reason is probably that in the very early days, you have a good store of most stuff. So they see no need to fetch those. But if you get hold of a resource, they believe is needed, that you do not have a good store of, they will all head there.

To be "ahead" use the Expansion planner. The top table. Sort the table by strategic/luxury. You want one or more sources of every strategic, and you want a good selection of luxuries (at least 10 different types). This table also gives your stores. If you think some strategics "looks low", try take mental notes of their stores. Check a bit later to see if the store is shrinking or increasing (you will not use a lot of every strategic at all times).

If you discover that you have 0 sources of a strategic, and the expansion planner (on galaxy sorting) gives no available sources, it could be time to use the galaxy map and filter for that resource. that way you could discover certain colonies you may want to conquer more than others.

If you wonder what strategics you need more of (apart from your racial bonus one), you should be able to find a list of required resources to build a design a bit hidden in the design screen. By that button in the center you should somehow be able to find the list for the whole design (and find that more than one steel mine is probably a good idea, for instance).