Question about Oil flow (no Ste_peterpan)

[cohimbra]

Hi all, there's the situation (pbem, 05 may '44, GC scen.001 stock, latest Michaelm Beta):



I've circa 50k Oil stocked in Soerabaja, but now loading it in tankerTFs is extremely dangerous because the allied outpost in Mataram/Denpasar. So I use Batavia port to load Fuel and Res without issue, but no Oil at all, apparently Oil don't flow in Batavia.

Oil Stokpile in Soerabaja is set 'No'.

I've also tried to send a little TK full of Oil (1250 liquid capacity) to Batavia, followed by more big (but empty) tankerTF; then unloaded Oil in port and next turn tried to load it with the big tankerTF. My hope was that more Oil than the 1250 'tons' unloaded were loaded (my hope was a Oil flow from Soerabaja to Batavia), but nothing happens. I leave the big tankerTF in load Oil mode for about 3/4 turns, but only 1250 Oil was loaded.

Sooo, here's the thread question: there's a way to 'force' Oil flow from Soerabaja to Batavia? Thanks.

edit_also turning Off refinery in Soerabaja seems do not impact.

[Yaab]

If player does not manipluate res/oil/fuel/supply flow, ANY SURPLUS of res/oil/fuel/supply in a given on-map economy will accumulate in the biggest port waiting to be exported. Sorebaja is port 7, Batavia is port 6.

Read this thread:
tm.asp?m=2780376&mpage=2&#4069392

[Yaab]

Set Batavia to stockpile Oil.

Load oil on TKs/AOs in Sorebeja and unload in Batavia. The oil should stay in Batavia now. If you set oil stockpiling in Batavia to "Off", the oil should migrate back to Sorebaja.

[cohimbra]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

If player does not manipluate res/oil/fuel/supply flow, ANY SURPLUS of res/oil/fuel/supply in a given on-map economy will accumulate in the biggest port waiting to be exported. Sorebaja is port 7, Batavia is port 6.

Read this thread:
tm.asp?m=2780376&mpage=2�

Thank for the link, I'm reading now with my cup of coffee.

But let me doing a flash question before I go to work: res surplus accumulutate in the biggest port (in our case Soerabaja instead of Batavia, 7 vs 6) and it's ok. But I'm able to load from Batavia Fuel and Res, also Fuel & Res flowed from Soerabaja (to be clear: in Batavia there are 10k each Fuel & Res. I send two TF with 20k capacity each and I'm able to load all the 10k/10k Fuel/Res that are stocked in Batavia plus other 10k/10k Fuel/Res drained from other ports...in this case Soerabaja it's the only port with all res stokpiles).

I'm asking why this not happen with Oil. Not a compliant, just for knowledge.

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Set Batavia to stockpile Oil.

Load oil on TKs/AOs in Sorebeja and unload in Batavia. The oil should stay in Batavia now. If you set oil stockpiling in Batavia to "Off", the oil should migrate back to Sorebaja.

Mmm...honestly don't remember if I I set Oil stokpile to On when I tried this trick. I'll try it again and see what happen. Thank Yaab (for now [:D]).

[Yaab]

Seems you have ships in Batavia so there is demand for fuel in Batavia, and your HI in Batavia is working so it needs Resources.

[cohimbra]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Seems you have ships in Batavia so there is demand for fuel in Batavia, and your HI in Batavia is working so it needs Resources.

True.

Let me reformulate the question*: I'm not asking why Oil don't stokpile in Batavia. I'm asking why, when I send a TK to Batavia to load Oil, Oil don't move from Soerabaja directly to my TF, like Fuel/Res/Supplies do.

*I reformulate because I can write & read english, but often I misunderstand what other wrote and/or other misunderstand what I wrote. Clearness first of all. Or...ehm, at least we try.

[jmalter]

hi cohimbra, the Refinery in Soerabaja has priority to use available Oil. If you turn the Soerabaja Refinery production OFF, for 3-4 turns, the Oil production will build up, & after a few turns will move to Batavia to fill the TK that is trying to load Oil.

[Yaab]

And now the greatest question of them all.

Americans bomb Sorebaja's port and damage it, reducing it to port level 5 in terms of unload and rearm points. Will the oil move to Batavia's port 6 then?

[jmalter]

I don't think so. Damage can reduce a port's effective size, but can't reduce its actual size.

[PaxMondo]

Soerbaya has both oil production AND usage, Batavia has neither. It will be EXTREMELY difficult to get oil to flow preferentially to Batavia. If I was going to try and get this to work:

1. Build Batavia up to a lvl9 port. Port size, and 9 in particular, matters a great deal.
2. Do NOT ever load oil from Soerbaya or any other Java post.
3. Set a TK at Batavia with load oil command.
4. Set Batavia to stockpile oil.
5. Be sure NO other base in Java has stockpile oil on.

Once Batavia has a bigger port than Soerbaya, you should start to see some oil flow, but not very much. At Lvl9 port size, you MAY see oil flowing fast enough that your tankers will fill at a reasonable rate. As noted above, Soerbaya is the natural sink and trying to work again that is going up hill. Not easy to do.

Good Luck!

[HansBolter]

Can't recall, but if Soerabaja has a refinery and heavy industry consider turning them off.

The refinery will stop converting stockpiled oil to fuel and the heavy industry will stop wanting that fuel.

I would think that would increase the possibility of Soerabaja releasing stockpiled oil to Batavia.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Can't recall, but if Soerabaja has a refinery and heavy industry consider turning them off.

The refinery will stop converting stockpiled oil to fuel and the heavy industry will stop wanting that fuel.

I would think that would increase the possibility of Soerabaja releasing stockpiled oil to Batavia.

I think so too. It's the same issue Allied players have with LA. If Oil production is balanced with Refinery demand there's no Oil to move elsewhere.

[Lokasenna]

If you turn off the refinery at Soerabaja, it won't necessarily move the Oil to Batavia because Batavia does not have a refinery, whereas at least one other place on Java does (Tjepoe, I think).

You need to load oil from Batavia - even if there is none there now, you need to create the demand for it. You can turn off the refinery at Soerabaja in an attempt to "release" the oil for flowing to Batavia, but with 53K Oil and only 90 (or even 170) points of refinery, it should release plenty to flow to Batavia as long as there is demand there.

Also, it's only 50K Oil, which is only going to turn into 50K supplies through refining and then HI. That's not nothing, but it's also not worth losing major assets over. Try some things, but keep in mind what you're trying to get. Is 50K supplies worth major ships or lots of planes to you?

[Yaab]

Cohimbra, remember that this automatic surplus-to-the-biggest-port movement is a pretty powerful mechanism in itself. If you set Batavia to stockpile oil, unload 500,000 oil in Batavia and accidentally disable the stockpiling, the code may move 500,000 oil in one turn to Sorebaja. I have seen the code push 800,000 supplies in ONE TURN this way. So always keep stockpiling on or you can wave goodbye to your hard-earned oil stash.

[rustysi]

As has been said above you're going against the grain here, and its not going to be easy. In my last game I had some success with this in getting the oil from northern China down to where I could use it. I'll add the following to what's been said above.

First off Batavia has a max port size of 7. You need to get it there, but that in and of itself isn't going to cut it. So, you'll need to increase your airfield size as its the tie breaker. If port sizes are equal things will flow to the larger base (port + airfield). Secondly keep demand for oil at Batavia by having a tanker there set to load oil. Once these two are in place then I'd turn off the refinery, as you may as well keep the fuel, which is easier to get to Batavia, and supply coming. Turning off the refinery will lower 'demand' for oil at Soerabaja and make getting it to Batavia easier. Notice I said easier as I doubt you'll be able to get all of it there anyway, although you might. You'll need to be patient as it won't flow right away. Even then I've only seen it flow in spits and spurts. I did manage to get the Northern China oil level down from ~50k to ~25k over the course of several months, but it was an effort. I wouldn't turn off the HI as I doubt it'll have any bearing on oil demand, only fuel.

All this being said, as has been pointed out above this is a relatively small gain for the effort, but if ya want to, OK. Of course the above has just been my experience and MHO. YMMV.

[cohimbra]

Thank you all, some good info here. As I said, I asked for my pleasure/knowledge, not for the 50k Oil...even if it's a full 6x TK type-1 TM class task force (48.900)!

Here is my main island resource stokpile, 08 may 1944.



As you can see it has several days whitout Oil delivery in japanese ports. And now that southeast Borneo (Balikpapan/Tarakan) are gone (too dangerous send cargo/tanker ships here), the Batavia 50k Oil shine like gold. Black gold.