Trade routes to China

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ashkpa
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Trade routes to China

Post by ashkpa »

In my ongoing struggles with the game-with-in-a-game called production convoys I have an issue where the computer is not implementing the default trade route for the the Indian resource from Yellandu. The computed route is "Arabian Sea" to "Bay of Bengal" then through Rangoon to China. The default route is only through the "Bay of Bengal" and I cannot figure out why the computer is not implementing this route. The attached save game file (during the 2nd impulse land move - during the land move so that I can switch between active players as I make the convoy route changes needed to adjust to the JP capture of the Malayan resources). Any guidance on why it is not taking the default route is appreciated.

Thanks,

Pat

P.S. Note, my frustration with this game-with-in-a-game is growing. Is it possible to add an option that would turn off the production convoy route AI. In this case the player would need to enter defaults and if something changed he would need to redo the defaults without "fighting" the computer (I have found that I have to figure out what is causing the computer to do something and then idle or otherwise adjust "non-related" resources to start to make the appropriate fixes). It may also be useful to turn off the computers ability to select which resources/oil and BPs are being lent to others which again would require the player to enter defaults for all of them. I would still expect the computer to verify that the rules are being followed at the pre-product check and at the final production check and not let the players go beyond those phases without being with-in the rules. I am finding that most of my problems occur when the production AI decides to lend from an inconveniently located resource/oil/BP or to use a route that is poorly chosen. In this turn, I have had the computer "override" default routes as it tried to accomplish it's goals and I have spend nearly two hours (between last night and this morning) trying to figure out what was causing the problem. This game-with-in-a-game is not the game I want to be playing.
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TradepathtoChina.zip
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Pat
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paulderynck
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by paulderynck »

You echo the wishes of many.

The only suggestion I have that might lessen your frustration is not to worry about production until you get to preliminary production. If you were doing it all manually then you would work out what's needed (or at least what's possible) during the lend phase and then get the right number of your CPs in place hopefully before the turn ends and hopefully without losses to enemy action. But either way, there's no point worrying about it until you get to preliminary production. You already know the game is worse at routing resources than you are, so do your best and don't go gray until you have to.
Paul
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ashkpa
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by ashkpa »

Any thought on the specific Yellandu trade route issue? Or is this an actual bug with program currently.
Pat
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Centuur
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by Centuur »

I don't know whether or not this turns out to be a bug. This is because I've seen the production planning changing during the turn itself. Sure, one needs to make calculations on the number of convoy points needed to transport resources overseas during the turn in a sea area, but that's about it.

As Paul stated, the production planning system is troublesome and a lot of time can be lost if one tries to salvage things during the turn if convoy lines are broken. Don't do this. Simply try to repair convoy lines during the turn during naval movement. You know what number of convooy points is needed in a sea area to get maximum production. When the turn ends and the preliminary production planning phase starts it's the time to look into things.

I used to spend a lot of time during the turn to repair things. I don't do that anymore.

And here's another thing: try to keep the number of defaults and overrides as few as possible. A couple of months ago, I ran into problems with the Japanese production planning. In despair, after hours and hours of frustration, I decided to throw away all default and overrides in the production planning forms and recompute. Guess what: the problem solved itself immediately.

So in your case: wait until the preliminary production planning phase starts. Throw away the defaults (in both the Chinese and the CW production planning forms). Simply say that the Indian resources need to be traded to China and let the computer compute, without you stating what route to use. It would be very strange if MWIF wouldn't solve this problem for you.

Peter
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ashkpa
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by ashkpa »

Thanks Peter. However your advice is different than Paul's or at least what I've interpreted Paul to say, which is to use defaults for everything. I also, truly do not trust the production convoy AI. I like to run convoys from Australia to Canada to fund the Canadian factories and then ship everything in Canada across the Atlantic (except the oil, which is saved in Canada). The last time I tried that without defaults it did not work out so well. Relative to Japan, I've yet to have an issue there and therefore I've never set up default path.
Pat
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Centuur
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by Centuur »

Well, you need some defaults ultimately to get a good production planning. However, what tends to happen during a game is that one adds more and more defaults. At a certain point, the program isn't able to cope with that anymore. That seems to be the case with your game.

The best solution is than to throw away all defaults and overrides, compute and start changing things from that point. That worked for me...
Peter
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ashkpa
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by ashkpa »

Thanks everyone. Once I got to the preliminary production phase it went pretty well (without changing the basic defaults). Some more convoys had been destroyed and some replaced, so the exact situation was not the same. I went through the return to base stuff and at Final production it was incorrect again, with a few default alterations with the right major power, I was able to get it back to the preliminary production state.

I have a lot of concerns with the current system, but I get the impression from the feedback that most of the effort is put into working around the current system. If that is the case, do you want feedback on areas of usability concerns?

In either case, I will continue to post on production when I believe there is an issue relative to the "rules".

Pat
Pat
Shannon V. OKeets
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RE: Trade routes to China

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: ashkpa

Thanks everyone. Once I got to the preliminary production phase it went pretty well (without changing the basic defaults). Some more convoys had been destroyed and some replaced, so the exact situation was not the same. I went through the return to base stuff and at Final production it was incorrect again, with a few default alterations with the right major power, I was able to get it back to the preliminary production state.

I have a lot of concerns with the current system, but I get the impression from the feedback that most of the effort is put into working around the current system. If that is the case, do you want feedback on areas of usability concerns?

In either case, I will continue to post on production when I believe there is an issue relative to the "rules".

Pat
I have been working through the reported problems with Production Planning. In the past 2 weeks I've cleared 20 items, but to do only required 7 'fixes'. The rest were duplicates, no longer problems, or not bugs in the first place. I still want to spend another week or so on Production Planning bug reports.
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
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