Yes they would be incredible usefull if you had them in December already. They aint useless even when they arrive in April in some locations.ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
The Rufe is a bastard of a plane. Hard to shoot down and hard to even damage.
Uhm wut ?
Its basically a downgraded A6M2.Slow,unmaneuverable and made out of paper tissue. Its the second worst fighter the IJN fields in the whole game next to the very obsolete Claude.
In short, a flying coffin.
Agreed, but would I love to have them at the start of the war. They could be very useful early on against the weak Allies. After that they make good trainers.[:D]
Is this gamey?
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
- Grfin Zeppelin
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:22 pm
- Location: Germany
RE: Is this gamey?
RE: Is this gamey?
They aint useless even when they arrive in April in some locations.
True, like anything else in this game, its up to the player to find the niche in which things work best.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Is this gamey?
1,200 betties shot down! Go ahead and do it. Your opponent does not have a clue anyways....[8|]
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: crsutton
1,200 betties shot down! Go ahead and do it. Your opponent does not have a clue anyways....[8|]
Yup.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
- Grfin Zeppelin
- Posts: 1514
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:22 pm
- Location: Germany
RE: Is this gamey?
And that in June 1942, I ponder how that is even possible. Japan starts the war with like 500. 50(Betty and Nell) get produced each month.ORIGINAL: crsutton
1,200 betties shot down! Go ahead and do it. Your opponent does not have a clue anyways....[8|]
So even if his oponent did some crazy expansion it would still mean he shot down ALL of them.
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
And that in June 1942, I ponder how that is even possible. Japan starts the war with like 500. 50(Betty and Nell) get produced each month.ORIGINAL: crsutton
1,200 betties shot down! Go ahead and do it. Your opponent does not have a clue anyways....[8|]
So even if his oponent did some crazy expansion it would still mean he shot down ALL of them.
Probably a fair bit of fog of war in that number.[;)]
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Probably a fair bit of fog of war in that number.[;)]
Possibly, playing against the Japanese AI I'm in august '42 with more than a thousand Bettys downed. It's probably easier against the AI?
Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
RE: Is this gamey?
If I question my self if it is gamey, then I wont do it. Thats my personal house rule.
- Fallschirmjager
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
RE: Is this gamey?
This is PBEM and we are using AndyMac's ironman
I am more experienced than my opponent so he has a lot more stuff to use.
He has 40-50 Betties making attacks in China.
I am sure FOW is exceeding the number but I have shot down a lot of planes.
He was also super aggressive the first week of the war and sunk a lot of good transports and tankers by moving his Betties forward and trapping them as I was trying to flee Burma/DEI/Philipines
He sank a lot of ships and lost a lot of planes.
I still have a fuel tank crunch so maybe it was worth it?
I am not taking it easy on him, but he is newer at the game than I am and we are trying to balance things a bit.
That is why we choose a scenario designed to give the AI a huge boost.
I am more experienced than my opponent so he has a lot more stuff to use.
He has 40-50 Betties making attacks in China.
I am sure FOW is exceeding the number but I have shot down a lot of planes.
He was also super aggressive the first week of the war and sunk a lot of good transports and tankers by moving his Betties forward and trapping them as I was trying to flee Burma/DEI/Philipines
He sank a lot of ships and lost a lot of planes.
I still have a fuel tank crunch so maybe it was worth it?
I am not taking it easy on him, but he is newer at the game than I am and we are trying to balance things a bit.
That is why we choose a scenario designed to give the AI a huge boost.
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7191
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
And that in June 1942, I ponder how that is even possible. Japan starts the war with like 500. 50(Betty and Nell) get produced each month.ORIGINAL: crsutton
1,200 betties shot down! Go ahead and do it. Your opponent does not have a clue anyways....[8|]
So even if his oponent did some crazy expansion it would still mean he shot down ALL of them.
Against the AI its pretty standard. The AI sends unescorted netties into heavy CAP day in and day out.
Hans
- geofflambert
- Posts: 14887
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
- Location: St. Louis
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: Pilsator
If I question my self if it is gamey, then I wont do it. Thats my personal house rule.
+1 Here! Here! Don't do goofy stuff you know wouldn't have happened. Spelling note" I know you meant won't as in 'will not' but wont without the apostrophe indicating a contraction means you are likely to do it, as that is your practice.
An example: "I am wont to look at girls in bikinis" means you're a prevert [sic]. Well not really.
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Pilsator
If I question my self if it is gamey, then I wont do it. Thats my personal house rule.
+1 Here! Here! Don't do goofy stuff you know wouldn't have happened. Spelling note" I know you meant won't as in 'will not' but wont without the apostrophe indicating a contraction means you are likely to do it, as that is your practice.
An example: "I am wont to look at girls in bikinis" means you're a prevert [sic]. Well not really.
Actually he wouldn't be a pervert. Now if he was looking at GUYS in bikini's.........[:D]
- geofflambert
- Posts: 14887
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
- Location: St. Louis
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Pilsator
If I question my self if it is gamey, then I wont do it. Thats my personal house rule.
+1 Here! Here! Don't do goofy stuff you know wouldn't have happened. Spelling note" I know you meant won't as in 'will not' but wont without the apostrophe indicating a contraction means you are likely to do it, as that is your practice.
An example: "I am wont to look at girls in bikinis" means you're a prevert [sic]. Well not really.
Actually he wouldn't be a pervert. Now if he was looking at GUYS in bikini's.........[:D]
I didn't say anything about perverts, I was referring to preverts just like Major Bat Guano.
RE: Is this gamey?
I have two apostrophs on my keyboard, both with a key combination that are near to breaking me my fingers, so No"'" and no "'" AND NO "`". Actually that are three. So I refuse to use them.
I take the bikini girls !! [;)]
I take the bikini girls !! [;)]
- Fallschirmjager
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
RE: Is this gamey?
Second turn is more productive but also shows the dangers.
Rufe's and Zeroes escort Betties, Nells and army Sally's (I think that is the army bomber)
He has layered his attacks and escorts and it pulls my CAP every where.
The escorts and CAP tangle and not much damage to either side. I shoot down some bombers. 4 Betties get torpedo runs but choose the CLAA Atlanta. They get a stern attack only (thank goodness) and miss.
Other Betties come in 1's and 2's but don't get good attacks as the AA is fierce.
Other level bombers attack at 1000, 2000 and 3000 feet.
My ships spend the morning evading at high speed.
The USS Porter takes a 100 kg bomb to the forecastle and is damaged. It could have been much worse.
The system damage is 27, fires are under control and flooding is only 4. She turns toward Noumea at 23 knots.
The entire TF gives up forcing it's way to the PI and turns south.
All in all not a bad day but not what I was hoping. This was an interesting experiment but time to end it.
On the day I have 13 Wildcats damaged and lose 4 and 2 more to OPS.
I shoot down 4 Rufes and damage 3-5 more. I down 3 Zeroes and damage 4-7 more.
I shoot down 20+ bombers and flak shoots down 5-7 more. I damage maybe a dozen.
I am getting results but due to weather and my CAP having to rapidly change altitude some of his bombers are getting through.
The Atlanta is lucky that those Betties did not get a side shot. Otherwise they would of put 1-3 torpedo's into her and I might of lost a good ship.
I also had 1 SBD shot down on patrol and another lost to OPS.
Next turn I expect him to stand down his forces and he has probably scrambled surface ships and subs to try and stop me.
Changing course south should throw him off.
I will stop at Suva to refuel my DD's and then head back to PH.
The Porter will get limited repairs at Noumea and then to Sydney to fully repair.
Rufe's and Zeroes escort Betties, Nells and army Sally's (I think that is the army bomber)
He has layered his attacks and escorts and it pulls my CAP every where.
The escorts and CAP tangle and not much damage to either side. I shoot down some bombers. 4 Betties get torpedo runs but choose the CLAA Atlanta. They get a stern attack only (thank goodness) and miss.
Other Betties come in 1's and 2's but don't get good attacks as the AA is fierce.
Other level bombers attack at 1000, 2000 and 3000 feet.
My ships spend the morning evading at high speed.
The USS Porter takes a 100 kg bomb to the forecastle and is damaged. It could have been much worse.
The system damage is 27, fires are under control and flooding is only 4. She turns toward Noumea at 23 knots.
The entire TF gives up forcing it's way to the PI and turns south.
All in all not a bad day but not what I was hoping. This was an interesting experiment but time to end it.
On the day I have 13 Wildcats damaged and lose 4 and 2 more to OPS.
I shoot down 4 Rufes and damage 3-5 more. I down 3 Zeroes and damage 4-7 more.
I shoot down 20+ bombers and flak shoots down 5-7 more. I damage maybe a dozen.
I am getting results but due to weather and my CAP having to rapidly change altitude some of his bombers are getting through.
The Atlanta is lucky that those Betties did not get a side shot. Otherwise they would of put 1-3 torpedo's into her and I might of lost a good ship.
I also had 1 SBD shot down on patrol and another lost to OPS.
Next turn I expect him to stand down his forces and he has probably scrambled surface ships and subs to try and stop me.
Changing course south should throw him off.
I will stop at Suva to refuel my DD's and then head back to PH.
The Porter will get limited repairs at Noumea and then to Sydney to fully repair.
- Fallschirmjager
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
RE: Is this gamey?
I would also not call my plan a complete failure. This was an interesting experiment and I DO think this plan has merit.
June 1942 is just too early to launch it.
I think this could be a devastating weapon in say late 1943 and 1944 as the Allies have to invade.
Replicate what I did. But use CVLs to beef up ASW and search but NOT to attack. Maybe leave a few squadrons on naval attack to ward off naval attack.
Escort with fast battleships.
Use the fast carriers at 100% cap stacked with extra Marine squadrons. Take them to your invasion spot and let them sit on a patrol grid for 3-5 turns.
Let them soak up attacks.
Thin out LBA
Then move in your invasion force and lets a second smaller fleet of fleet carriers and CVLs and CVEs act as LR Cap to protect the landings.
You might be able to grind up Japanese LBA and make landings easier with less ships lost.
Airfield attacks are also still a method but I find flak and OPS loses to be extreme but doing these with carrier borne bombers.
Drawing them out and letting them attack you seems to be a better method.
Or maybe I am just crazy and too willing to try new ideas.
But I have learned from this.
And this has been great for my pilots. Their air and defense skills are increasing rapidly but so is fatigue.
June 1942 is just too early to launch it.
I think this could be a devastating weapon in say late 1943 and 1944 as the Allies have to invade.
Replicate what I did. But use CVLs to beef up ASW and search but NOT to attack. Maybe leave a few squadrons on naval attack to ward off naval attack.
Escort with fast battleships.
Use the fast carriers at 100% cap stacked with extra Marine squadrons. Take them to your invasion spot and let them sit on a patrol grid for 3-5 turns.
Let them soak up attacks.
Thin out LBA
Then move in your invasion force and lets a second smaller fleet of fleet carriers and CVLs and CVEs act as LR Cap to protect the landings.
You might be able to grind up Japanese LBA and make landings easier with less ships lost.
Airfield attacks are also still a method but I find flak and OPS loses to be extreme but doing these with carrier borne bombers.
Drawing them out and letting them attack you seems to be a better method.
Or maybe I am just crazy and too willing to try new ideas.
But I have learned from this.
And this has been great for my pilots. Their air and defense skills are increasing rapidly but so is fatigue.
- Admiral DadMan
- Posts: 3366
- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
RE: Is this gamey?
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
...I think this could be a devastating weapon in say late 1943 and 1944 as the Allies have to invade...
One word: Hellcats.
RE: Is this gamey?
This was an interesting experiment...
Agreed. Not sure why you incurred flack by others. Any plausible change in tactics is interesting, especially when well-documented and shared with others here. Excellent learning experience, thanks.
Col. Mussbu
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"
RE: Is this gamey?
Later in the war you have several better advantages:
Better and more radar.
More experienced and better pilots (hopefully).
Better fighters.
More flak.
More experienced ship crews.
Better and more radar.
More experienced and better pilots (hopefully).
Better fighters.
More flak.
More experienced ship crews.
- Admiral DadMan
- Posts: 3366
- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
RE: Is this gamey?
A big drawback to this experiment (from personal experience/observation) is that even with well trained pilots and upgraded radar, Wildcats still get the butts handed to them by Zeros.