Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Dili
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Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Dili »

I am wondering what is the best class for this kind of ships: AG? i am afraid AR is too much. I have had a crazy idea what about ARD they usually came with people that make the first repairs and in game they plug hull holes so i am tempted to have 2 modes: AG and ARD choosen by convertion that way they can do some transport and be converted to ARD in an emergency.

Opinions?
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Yaab
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Yaab »

Maybe AGt (tug)? Slow speed with no cargo capacity and no troop capacity, so it doesn't reload weapons/depth charges and is not used for transport missions like the standard AGs.
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PaxMondo
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by PaxMondo »

Not aware that anyone but dev's can create new ship classes ... if you have a way, please share.
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by btd64 »

Pax, in the editor. Look at ship classes. As long as there is a empty slot you can create a ship class....GP
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

You can create classes in the editor but not ship types. I.e. you can create a Cherokee class for example - but you cannot create the "ATF" ship type that would be needed nor the functionalities of a "rescue tug". You have to assign the class to an existing ship type. My tugs are yps for want of a better option - AR is too much. AG? Interesting thought.
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traskott
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by traskott »

Yes, but how can u give that class the features which made it unique ( ie: SS: underwater ).
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: Dili

I am wondering what is the best class for this kind of ships: AG? i am afraid AR is too much. I have had a crazy idea what about ARD they usually came with people that make the first repairs and in game they plug hull holes so i am tempted to have 2 modes: AG and ARD choosen by convertion that way they can do some transport and be converted to ARD in an emergency.

Opinions?

Don't do it.

Tugs are specifically covered by the game abstractions. The devs looked at them and decided it was not possible to introduce them into the game.

Tugs do not repair ships in port. They only exist to tow a ship or to maneouver into docking, both not being in the game.

Towing is not possible in the game which is why the abstraction was made to allow ships totally out of fuel to move a hex. Nor should they be made into any kind of tender/repair ship as that will imbalance the ship repair routines.

There is no role for tugs.

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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

They can be added for "chrome". Want to move that ARD? Yes, it can move a hex per phase on its own - but it looks better when there are a couple of tugs in the same TF. Btw, many tugs had some ASW and AA capabilities and may take a fish intended for the ARD.
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Revthought
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Revthought »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Dili

I am wondering what is the best class for this kind of ships: AG? i am afraid AR is too much. I have had a crazy idea what about ARD they usually came with people that make the first repairs and in game they plug hull holes so i am tempted to have 2 modes: AG and ARD choosen by convertion that way they can do some transport and be converted to ARD in an emergency.

Opinions?

Don't do it.

Tugs are specifically covered by the game abstractions. The devs looked at them and decided it was not possible to introduce them into the game.

Tugs do not repair ships in port. They only exist to tow a ship or to maneouver into docking, both not being in the game.

Towing is not possible in the game which is why the abstraction was made to allow ships totally out of fuel to move a hex. Nor should they be made into any kind of tender/repair ship as that will imbalance the ship repair routines.

There is no role for tugs.

Alfred

Yes and no. Specifically we are referring here to ocean going tugs, who did tow ships, but did not have a role in "docking." As I said earlier, they were very important to logistical tasks that are modeled in the game. For example:

*Unload rate for amphibious landings/Keeping invasion lanes clear of sunk and disabled landing craft
*Salvage and rescue/Towing (have a beat up ship limping to port, decrease the likelihood it sinks/speed at which it limps by sending a tug)
*Shallow water obstacle (mine) removal
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Dili
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Dili »

The objective is to not tow ships - i mean these are big tugs in 700-1000t range - but to salvage ships, classifying them as an ARD mean they can stop holes in the hull maybe simulating some salvage capability they have.

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PaxMondo
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Pax, in the editor. Look at ship classes. As long as there is a empty slot you can create a ship class....GP
I meant class in the context of going from an AG and creating an AGt ... don't know how to do that ...
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obvert
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by obvert »

Here is a fact sheet on tugs. They did have some armament that could assist in a situation of moving a stricken ship or even an ARD.

They also had some fire-fighting ability. I know this is abstracted, but interesting to note.

EDIT: Here is the source doc, which ha a few other points of interest for anyone adding tugs, (like a list of ALL USN tugs at 44 when the report was made)
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/Misc/1944TugCharacteristics.html

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Dili
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Dili »

That's neat. What is the source?
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obvert
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Dili

That's neat. What is the source?

Link is added above. Here's the cover of the document.



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Dili
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Dili »

Thanks obvert
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Yaab
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Yaab »

The best class would be BBt (thug) for Yamato and Musashi bullies.
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Revthought
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by Revthought »

My grandfather served as Chief Engineer on the USS Kiowa from June 1942 to January 1945. I can tell you all about the kinds of tasks performed. From easy slow convoy duty pulling damaged ships and barges to clearing obstacles, mines, and sunk landing craft on Utah and Omaha beaches during D-Day.

They were quite versatile ships that did a lot. I understand how one would think their contributions were fairly minor, and why they might not be included in stock; however, if someone is prepared to do a little coding, I definitely think these ships are worthy of inclusion in a mod!

From January 1945 until 1947 my grandfather was the Chief Engineer on the USS Conserver, which was a dedicated salvage and rescue ship. I think these boats were probably worthy of inclusion in the game too, but Fleet Tugs more so.
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m10bob
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by m10bob »

As mentioned above, fleet tugs are already figured into the game for the reasons also listed above.
That said, I went to Danfs' site and learned the ARD-2 class floating drydocks(propulsionless) went to theater towed by single Navajo class tugs.

Navajo class were 205 feet long, beam 38'6", displaced 1235 tones, had a complement of 85 men, top speed of 16 kts and could tow up to 20,000 tons per.
Armed with 1x3"/50 gun,2x40mm and 2x20mm guns.



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m10bob
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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by m10bob »

Another Navajo class:

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RE: Oceanic tugs, the best class for them?

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Revthought

My grandfather served as Chief Engineer on the USS Kiowa from June 1942 to January 1945. I can tell you all about the kinds of tasks performed. From easy slow convoy duty pulling damaged ships and barges to clearing obstacles, mines, and sunk landing craft on Utah and Omaha beaches during D-Day.

They were quite versatile ships that did a lot. I understand how one would think their contributions were fairly minor, and why they might not be included in stock; however, if someone is prepared to do a little coding, I definitely think these ships are worthy of inclusion in a mod!

From January 1945 until 1947 my grandfather was the Chief Engineer on the USS Conserver, which was a dedicated salvage and rescue ship. I think these boats were probably worthy of inclusion in the game too, but Fleet Tugs more so.
+1
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