Most important improvements

Tigers on the Hunt is a World War 2 hard-core tactical wargame for PC.

It creates a truly and immersive depth tactical simulation. Tigers on the Hunt boasts a ferocious and adaptive AI which will dynamically respond to a player’s maneuvers.

Moderators: Peter Fisla, Paullus

Rosseau
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Rosseau »

I think one of the issues is the multi-phased nature of the game would make it difficult to program or play in MP. Think of all the button pushing we're doing already.

In OOB Pacific I've had some of the best MP games ever. But SP the game is getting boring, so certainly not against MP if it is feasible. If it takes a year of programming and was never designed with MP in mind, maybe not so good.
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waltero
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by waltero »


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele

Stop the speech! How do you know I have no interest in this game? Are you a magician? LOL. I play sometimes by email other games and also enjoy playing alone at home. If you are addicted to email games it´s up to you, but let others have different opinions. I will repeat it again: I see this game mechanics perfect for SP games, I´m not against MP.


Sorry if I offended you. You misunderstand me (quote: "best" interest).

Quote: MikeMarchant_ssl
Look at the games which have survived for a long time and those which haven't. Now look at which games can be played multiplayer and which can't.

I (along with many others) did not know they still made games (war)that don't allow networking...do they?

If your only argument is: You guys can find loads of excellent games for MP. Do you know many good ones for SP?

SP, AI has no argument...It presents a challenge...possibly the reason Peter has chosen to go forward with AI development? Creating a acceptable AI in a game like this is impossible (too many Variables)- Peter might be able to pull it off. Either way this game will sit in limbo[:(]

Support MP and AI will follow...





"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?
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JiminyJickers
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by JiminyJickers »

ORIGINAL: Gerry

ORIGINAL: Paullus

Guys, did you check out Idjesters thread on how to play TotH with Multiplayer? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4042900

I am not a security guru but I believe systems like Teamviewer open ports on your computer. Any security person here that could explain if this is a concern or not.

My worry is obviously not playing a fellow wargamer, and I recognize many of the names from many forums over the years, but ending up playing against a hacker.

I haven't used Teamspeak but have used similar software. Most of them allows you to send and take files from the PC you are connected to. There may be settings to alleviate it, but you have to be very careful when allowing anyone remote access to your PC.

This is exactly how those fake Microsoft scam people connected to your PC to install dodgy software.
idjester
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by idjester »

Guys, I hate to say this again but if your looking for multiplayer than remote hotseat is going to be your only option for awhile. The developer has stated he is going to work on the AI first and foremost. So if your interested in doing a connection for multiplayer game there is an option available right now.

Hot seat, or remote play or whatever you want to call it. Right now this feature is working and available to everyone and if we just take a second and see the different between true multiplayer and the remote hotseat options there isn't much difference between the two of them.

1)Multiplayer will have two interfaces on two computer vs. Remote hotseat will have 1 interface on one computer
2) Multiplayer both sides will see all of their units all the time vs. Remote hotseat the defender for the turn will only see his units that are currently in LOS of the enemy or if the enemy moves into LOS they will be seen.
3)Multiplayer both player will control their units vs remote hotseat where one player will have to control his units and his opponents units.

That's about the only difference between the two options. If you think that multiplayer is going to add or change a bunch of other things in the game your probably wrong as this will have to be a realtime live link.

If your waiting for PBEM then you'll in the wrong game, as that isn't an option unless the AI controls your units when your opponent moves and does the defensive fire for you. But that brings up a whole new set of problems because players will complain that the AI shot at the wrong units, and that they would have never shot at the half squad moving up when there was another stack of units waiting to move.

Realistically, remote hotseat will do just about everything a real live multiplayer interface would do but instead of each player controlling their own units it will be up to just one player to manage the game and interface. That might not be the totally best option for everyone but for the majority this should be a good option.






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bssybeep
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by bssybeep »

ORIGINAL: Jafele

I think the opposite. Once they solve the known bugs they should focus on AI improvements. There are plenty of games you can play in MP out there, only a few have a challenging AI.

+++
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waltero
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by waltero »

ORIGINAL: bssybeep

ORIGINAL: Jafele

I think the opposite. Once they solve the known bugs they should focus on AI improvements. There are plenty of games you can play in MP out there, only a few have a challenging AI.

+++



I don't believe it is an issue anymore...that is the plan (develop AI)...no worries.

Have you ever wondered why only a few games out there with a challenging AI?
Challenging for who? Most games (like this) it is next to impossible to create satisfactory AI...too many variables.
Human vs AI, is a totally different game, oppose to human vs human. Multiplayer/internet is So easy to access these days, AI will become obsolete (if not already).

Playing against the AI is a good time passer (short lived) at best...never challenging.
"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?
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MrsWargamer
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by MrsWargamer »

It's already multiplayer.

Teamviewer is the route to take.

If you don't know the person well enough to use Teamviewer that's a reasonable reason for apprehension.

How many of you actually have no close friends though?

How many of you seriously want to play a complex war game with a total stranger?

I wouldn't be willing to play someone multiplayer with a multiplayer option that didn't need a Teamviewer solution.

If I don't know you well enough for Teamviewer, then I don't know you well enough for a war game to begin with.

Work on the AI and multiplayer, but don't use Multiplayer to hide behind a simple truth.

If you don't have anyone you can trust, just say so. It's not a valid reason to hate on the AI choice.

Oh and don't waste time telling me I 'TOLD' you anything. If it's that easy to demand you do anything, then I demand you buy me my copy of the game :)
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
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Freyr Oakenshield
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Freyr Oakenshield »

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

It's already multiplayer.

Teamviewer is the route to take.

If you don't know the person well enough to use Teamviewer that's a reasonable reason for apprehension.

How many of you actually have no close friends though?

How many of you seriously want to play a complex war game with a total stranger?

I wouldn't be willing to play someone multiplayer with a multiplayer option that didn't need a Teamviewer solution.

If I don't know you well enough for Teamviewer, then I don't know you well enough for a war game to begin with.

Work on the AI and multiplayer, but don't use Multiplayer to hide behind a simple truth.

If you don't have anyone you can trust, just say so. It's not a valid reason to hate on the AI choice.

Oh and don't waste time telling me I 'TOLD' you anything. If it's that easy to demand you do anything, then I demand you buy me my copy of the game :)


Seriously? You need Teamviewer to play a multiplayer game? How does it help?
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MrsWargamer
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by MrsWargamer »

No the comment is the game needs multiplayer, and the response is it's already an option, if you seriously need multiplayer.

For those not needing multiplayer, it's not a problem.

It's the same with ASL. If you desperately want to play it, and have no FTF opponents, there's always VASL. Some though will refuse to use VASL and in that case they don't get to play at all.
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
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Stardog765
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Stardog765 »

Pretty sure everyone who bought the game, like myself already knew it was a single player game.
How about we let the developer develop his game the way he sees fit?

If the AI and polishing the single player game is the way he sees fit to go for now just respect that and play the game you bought.
It isnt like he promised MP and is now going back on that. This was a single player game from the start.

Just my 1.5 cents.

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Freyr Oakenshield
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Freyr Oakenshield »

ORIGINAL: Stardog765

Pretty sure everyone who bought the game, like myself already knew it was a single player game.
How about we let the developer develop his game the way he sees fit?

If the AI and polishing the single player game is the way he sees fit to go for now just respect that and play the game you bought.
It isnt like he promised MP and is now going back on that. This was a single player game from the start.

Just my 1.5 cents.


Aye, Aye!
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DoubleDeuce
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I could be wrong but, having played this game awhile now I am pretty confident that SASL was a heavy influencer in Peter's design choices.
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Freyr Oakenshield
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Freyr Oakenshield »

ORIGINAL: waltero

. . . Have you ever wondered why only a few games out there with a challenging AI?

Challenging for who? Most games (like this) it is next to impossible to create satisfactory AI...too many variables.
Human vs AI, is a totally different game, oppose to human vs human.

There are only a few becasue the coders can't create a challenging AI. But the very attempt at creating such an AI is worth the effort. Think of it more like a contribution to cognitive science. Maybe the developer has come up with some ingenious algorithms and will be able to advance research in this area.

ORIGINAL: waltero

Multiplayer/internet is So easy to access these days, AI will become obsolete (if not already).

No, AI will not become obsolete. The research into AI is developing really fast. Think of Google's AlphaGo or NEIL...

ORIGINAL: waltero

Playing against the AI is a good time passer (short lived) at best...never challenging.


I think GO player Fan Hui doesn't share your appraisal of the situation... [:D]

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waltero
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by waltero »

I understand- what you say is true.
I no longer enjoy playing against the AI (war games)...the trill is gone.
Win or lose, cheating is always involved. When the AI scores a win, it cheats.
Does anybody give a second thought when it comes to reloading a turn...how about PBEM game?
Playing War (Toth) in the Holodeck/AI would be worth playing.
Teamviewer is not a solution!

I can respect the Developer wanting to go with the AI, I am sure it is far easier than trying to code player suggestions.

Wishing great success for this game, if you think the AI will do it for you- more power to ya.
I am OK with Hotseat...for now.

AI with a Story is somewhat entertaining.
"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?
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sushidog
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by sushidog »

I'm not really worried about AI vs. multi-player. For me, I'm not going to play it much if the interface doesn't improve.

I only just got it this weekend, so perhaps I'm missing things. When I click on a stack, rather than selecting all the units in the stack, I seem to have to ctrl-click on all their names to select them. There doesn't seem to be any right-click options. These are things that VASL has been doing well for a long time. Are there hotkeys? The function keys don't seem to do anything. As it plays now, the game is very mousey, which is not my cup of tea.

I've been waiting for computer ASL for 20+ years, so I'm happy to see this. I just hope the interface is still a work-in-progress.
idjester
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by idjester »

ORIGINAL: sushidog

I'm not really worried about AI vs. multi-player. For me, I'm not going to play it much if the interface doesn't improve.

I only just got it this weekend, so perhaps I'm missing things. When I click on a stack, rather than selecting all the units in the stack, I seem to have to ctrl-click on all their names to select them. There doesn't seem to be any right-click options. These are things that VASL has been doing well for a long time. Are there hotkeys? The function keys don't seem to do anything. As it plays now, the game is very mousey, which is not my cup of tea.

I've been waiting for computer ASL for 20+ years, so I'm happy to see this. I just hope the interface is still a work-in-progress.

There will be some bug fixes and updates coming in the patch, UI and AI fixes to come. Hang in there man, the interface isn't that bad man and you can quickly become super perficient with it. Yes its an extra click or two but with some games under your belt you will hardly even notice it.
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Peter Fisla
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Peter Fisla »

ORIGINAL: waltero

Win or lose, cheating is always involved. When the AI scores a win, it cheats.

I think I mentioned this before, the AI in Tigers on the Hunt does NOT cheat.

Thanks

Peter
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waltero
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by waltero »

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

ORIGINAL: waltero

Win or lose, cheating is always involved. When the AI scores a win, it cheats.

I think I mentioned this before, the AI in Tigers on the Hunt does NOT cheat.

Thanks

Peter

Cheating is always going to come up when the AI is involved. Even if you do come out with a excellent AI, players will believe Cheat is involved...might be because they have to cheat in order to beat the AI (makes players feel better knowing they 'r on even terms).
AI/cheat always comes up no matter what the devs profess. I don't know why this is but I see on every game site...JUST THE WAY IT IS[:(]
"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?
Gerry4321
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by Gerry4321 »

Sometimes after you select a ton of units and fire some actions follow and then you notice the units are deselected and you have to select them all again. Not good.

Also the default could be all units are selected when you click on a hex and then you deselect the ones that you don't want?? Or a doubl-click selects all so if there are 6 counters and you only needed 5 to fire then you deselect one. Much easier.
whqgaming
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RE: Most important improvements

Post by whqgaming »

+1
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