CW lent oil to China

[ashkpa]

So, in the last turn, the CW lent an oil to FF in Gabon from Canada (this was the default action for the Canadian oil). This turn two things happen, first the trade agreement with the FF was stopped and second a trade agreement was started to ship a CW oil to China (also the FF are to ship a resource to China, but the convoys I want to use are not yet in place).

I am at the beginning of this turn. Initially the computer choose to sent the Canadian oil to China (the default was still FF though the trade agreement was not in place). Thought there might be an issue here, so I canceled the default trade to FF and tried to set the default to Burma. Moved to the Burma oil (Yenangyaung), moved to the default tab. Click the first row select China and then nothing. The default menu does not show the default has being China, it is blank. Because I changed a few things, I saved the file. Exited the program and then reloaded the entire program. Went to production tab. Again, the Canadian oil was going to China and again, I cannot select the Burma oil as the oil to trade to China. There is no default on the Canadian oil to delete. I've attached the file.

I enjoy this game, but the production AI, especially around the CW, is very frustrating.

Pat

[paulderynck]

I'm not sure you can change production until the Preliminary production step (for lends, anyway). Also be careful you don't wait for the final production phase. I used to skip preliminary production (as it seemed redundant) until I found out the program will not let you change the directives for lends subsequent to preliminary production.

This is because the designer felt this would be a gamey tactic to do after Search and Seizure, which happens in between those two. (Mind you, Search and Seizure does not yet work correctly and is disabled.)

[ashkpa]

Well, another design choice I don't agree with. I want to verify my convoy's are correct while I still have a chance to adjust convoy's if needed. If you wait till the preliminary production phase, the player has no choice to add or move convoy's around. I find this especially problematic because of other issues I've continued to have with getting the routes to use convoy paths that I wish (much better than it used to be, but still not perfect).

[paulderynck]

have you had a chance to view the production tutorial video?

[ashkpa]

Yes, and it helped a lot. However, I find the system non-intuitive. This is especially true when items of the last few days are highlighted, 1) lends not being adjustable till the preliminary production phase (per this email thread), and 2) per another thread, that the player-set defaults are not the first priority.

This would all be mute if the program could create paths on it's own that were adequate, but it does not. I always find the AI post funny, because until the program can do convoy paths well - without "hints" from the players via the defaults, the hope of an adequate AI in not reasonable.

A perfect case is the file attached. The program had an idle oil in Burma that could easily go to China, but used the oil in Canada.

Pat

[paulderynck]

I agree completely, especially about the AI.

[ashkpa]

Well, I've gotten to the preliminary production phase. I still have not able to get the program to use the Burma oil instead of the Canadian oil for trade with China. Everytime I click the Burma oil, default first line and select China, nothing happens. The selection box disappears, nothing is changed in the default box, and the recompute box is not highlighted. File attached. I did delete the defaults for the Canadian oil. Another try, I also set the trading country to none for the Canadian oil.

Pat

[paulderynck]

Using your saved file, I got it to work by using the "Switch major powers" button. It worked twice. Unfortunately, it seems so hit and miss (or it's just too late at night) that my attempts to replicate what I did don't seem to result in the same outcome.

I know I went to China and idled the TR oil as a default. Then to the CW and set the Estevan oil to idle and the Burma oil to be traded. Then back to China and changed the oil's destination. Although it initially was insisting the oil came from Estevan, it did change to being from Burma on one of the recomputes.

But as I said, I can't seem to replicate the steps to give you a minimal listing of the steps to do it. Once one of us can do it reliably and document the steps, that info will be sheer gold!

[Centuur]

How to do this:

1st: in the CW, select the oil resources and select the line of the Birmese oil resource.

Click the radio button "Trade" (the one just above the "recompute" button");

Click "OK";

Click the empty cell just under "Oil Yenangyaung";

Select "China" and click OK;

Now, one would assume the "Recompute" button should be activated at this time so everything will be recalculated. However, the button is disabled at this time. This is a bug IMHO. To avoid this bug, do the following:

Select the line of the Estevan oil resource. Make the default AND override as "idle" for this resource. Don't do anything else with this resource, than I did describe above at this time (I believe this too is a bug, because one should be able to do what one wants with this resource at this time, MWIF doesn't allow this at this moment).

Press the "recompute" button.

Now, the Chinese recieve the oil out of Birma.

Next, clear the default and override section of the Estevan oil and allocate it where you want it to go (I've put it in as a save in Edmonton in this example).

[AlbertN]

Another altering factor is that through the Return to Base phase some naval combats can be triggered, leading to the loss of CPs (albeit very rare it may happe)

[ashkpa]

Thank you Centuur. Not intuitive, but it allows me to do what I wished.

[paulderynck]

I just tried Centuur's fix and it's even less clicks than described. I changed Estevan to Idle in default and without hitting Recompute I arrowed to Override and set Estevan to Idle. Then I hit Recompute and the program sent the oil from Burma without further fiddling.

Finally I cleared the Estevan override and again without recomputing changed the Estevan default to save it somewhere in Canada, and then hit Recompute and that all worked.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: ashkpa

So, in the last turn, the CW lent an oil to FF in Gabon from Canada (this was the default action for the Canadian oil). This turn two things happen, first the trade agreement with the FF was stopped and second a trade agreement was started to ship a CW oil to China (also the FF are to ship a resource to China, but the convoys I want to use are not yet in place).

I am at the beginning of this turn. Initially the computer choose to sent the Canadian oil to China (the default was still FF though the trade agreement was not in place). Thought there might be an issue here, so I canceled the default trade to FF and tried to set the default to Burma. Moved to the Burma oil (Yenangyaung), moved to the default tab. Click the first row select China and then nothing. The default menu does not show the default has being China, it is blank. Because I changed a few things, I saved the file. Exited the program and then reloaded the entire program. Went to production tab. Again, the Canadian oil was going to China and again, I cannot select the Burma oil as the oil to trade to China. There is no default on the Canadian oil to delete. I've attached the file.

I enjoy this game, but the production AI, especially around the CW, is very frustrating.

Pat

I will look at your saved game but I belive what is happening is:

Originally there is no oil resource assigned to fulfill the Commonwealth to China trade agreement. The program takes the oil resource farthest north and tries to use that oil. If no path can be found for the northern most oil resource, it continues searching from north to south. Having found an oil resource that can reach China, it then stops searching. Because this assignment is to fulfill a trade agreement, the program stores the oil resource and the path under the Default data fields.

When you go to change the designated oil resource to the one in Burma - as a default - the program still finds the Canadian oil resource before the Burma oil (searching from north to south for default settings).

By clearing the Default setting for the Canadian oil, the program should use the Burma oil first because it is a Default setting.

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The processing sequence to satisfy Trade agreements is to look for Overrides first [i.e., a resource has been assigned an Override value to fulfill the given Trade agreement], Defaults second, then Unassigned (no Override or Default set) resources, ...

There is a lot of code related to all of this because the program also tries to use Last Turn's resource at some later point (to avoid having to search for a valid destination and path). It also is avoiding using resources that have Override or Default set to fulfill a different trade agreement, or even simply to fulfill the preferences of the player for non-trade agreements.