War Plan Orange: Question

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:13 pm

So, I know, wrong forum... but the community here is far more active, AND I'm willing to bet this community is also home to most War Plan Orange owners.

In any case, I'm curious if anyone still plays this game. I own it and would possibly be open to a slower PBEM game (I'm involved in 3 WiTPAE PBEMs at the moment, so probably not going to get a one turn a day turn around).

Really though, I'm more curious if it is still played by anyone here.

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:52 pm

Literally nobody here plays all? So odd.

pws1225 · Post by **pws1225** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:49 pm

Not so odd in my case. I happened to buy WitP-AE and WPO at the same. I just happened to open WitP-AE first and haven't looked back since. That was 7 years ago. I'm sure WPO is still around here somewhere. [:D]

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:14 pm

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Not so odd in my case. I happened to buy WitP-AE and WPO at the same. I just happened to open WitP-AE first and haven't looked back since. That was 7 years ago. I'm sure WPO is still around here somewhere. [:D]

Well, the WPO forum is totally dead, which is why I came here with the question! I just re-downloaded the game and I cannot so much as find a patch for it let alone an opponent! :/

Miller · Post by **Miller** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:02 pm

ORIGINAL: Revthought

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Not so odd in my case. I happened to buy WitP-AE and WPO at the same. I just happened to open WitP-AE first and haven't looked back since. That was 7 years ago. I'm sure WPO is still around here somewhere. [:D]

Well, the WPO forum is totally dead, which is why I came here with the question! I just re-downloaded the game and I cannot so much as find a patch for it let alone an opponent! :/

I bought it when it first came out. Trust me, it is not worth the effort. 1% action 99% tedium.

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:22 pm

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: Revthought

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Not so odd in my case. I happened to buy WitP-AE and WPO at the same. I just happened to open WitP-AE first and haven't looked back since. That was 7 years ago. I'm sure WPO is still around here somewhere. [:D]

Well, the WPO forum is totally dead, which is why I came here with the question! I just re-downloaded the game and I cannot so much as find a patch for it let alone an opponent! :/

I bought it when it first came out. Trust me, it is not worth the effort. 1% action 99% tedium.

That's too bad. I like the dreadnought era quite a bit more than the carrier era of WW2.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:38 am

Maybe someone will make WPO mod for WITP-AE..

dave sindel · Post by **dave sindel** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:49 am

I seem to recall a discussion at one point about a WPO / AE mod, but it's been a while since I read it. I looked on the WPO forum but couldnt find the thread. IIRC the project ran afoul of some copyright and / or intellectual property rights issues and the person promoting the mod idea was basically told to "cease and desist".

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:50 pm

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

I seem to recall a discussion at one point about a WPO / AE mod, but it's been a while since I read it. I looked on the WPO forum but couldnt find the thread. IIRC the project ran afoul of some copyright and / or intellectual property rights issues and the person promoting the mod idea was basically told to "cease and desist".

How on earth could it run afoul of that? If the game itself is modable, I do not think anyone owns the rights to the representations of naval vessels in a video game. The only thing you really need to be wary of is copying the work (the art, etc.) other people have done, because they technically do own the copyright on that--though they may lose it once it's submitted as a public derivative of the primary copyrighted work (the game), depending on their relationship with the owner of the game's copyright, and the locale in which they reside.

dave sindel · Post by **dave sindel** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:07 pm

I've tried searching for the thread on both WPO forum and AE forum, with no luck so far. I remember thinking at the time though the same thing you mentioned - that "the guy just wants to use the AE system to play WPO, where's the harm in that?".

dave sindel · Post by **dave sindel** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:08 pm

Here's the thread I referred to. Pay attention to the posts from "Tankerace" - # 15 & # 36

tm.asp?m=2318999&mpage=1&key=

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:54 pm

Is this the mod you're talking about?

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:45 am

There have been at least 4 different people (in 2010, 2012 and 2016 IIRC) who have claimed to be working on a WPO mod for AE.
 

The difficulties in starting before 7 Dec 1941 go a long way to explaining why nothing public (as opposed to a mod for private consumption only) has, and never will, come out of those musings.
 
You would need to get a team assembled to do the work.  There just isn't the interest.  AE players are too busy with AE and the WPO forum is dead for a reason.
 
There really is no point in raising this thread here.  If you really want to play WPO there is no alternative but to reinvigorate that forum with direct posts there.  Eventually some lurkers will come out, but if they don't, well that is life.
 
Alfred

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:12 pm

I read it, and frankly that's not how copyright law works in video games (I could quote the case law for you if you like). Tanker face is correct, he owns (or partially owns depending on his own use of copyrighted material, the code in WPO, the art work, and maybe very specific scenarios; unless those scenarios reflect the historical locations and arrangement of forces on the start date, then he doesn't--think War in Russia owning the starting location of the German panzer armies for Barbarossa.

He could not stop (well he could by litigating and making the project over burdensome) the introduction of dreadnought era ships into the WITPAE engine. He could argue that his stats for ships are protected work, unless of course they are true to life reflections of those ships, in which case he might as well say he stole from his sources. In other words, you cannot own the historical stats.

He could own how the game engine uses those stats to translate into gameplay; however, since in this case any stats would utilize WITPAE code and not his, he'd have no ground to stand on their either.

The only thing he has going for him is that it was initially stated the proposed mod would be a copy of WPO. Once the modded made clear that this was to be a new product that reflects something entirely different, even that ground gets unfirm.

The people who truly have the copyright trump card are Matrix generally (or whoever owns the rights to WITPAE). They would be well within their rights to forbid any modification of WITPAE they'd like. Not entirely true since they Included the editor, but they could stop the distribution of a modification.

Not that I have any doc in this game at all. I'm just a former academic who likes to engage in these types of conversations (and once taught a law class on cyberspeech and gaming).

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:51 pm

Copyright concerns is not the pre 7 December 1941 difficulties I alluded to.  The AE engine has embedded within it certain developments which are hard coded to occur after a set number turns.  The base starting point is 7 December 1941 but the developments occur irrespective of when a scenario starts.
 
For scenarios starting on or after 7 December 1941 this isn't a problem.  It is however a problem for scenarios which start before 7 December 1941 and it is very difficult to maintain the integrity of purpose of those earlier start dates when these developments kick in.
 
Alfred

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:06 pm

Right, you'd have to live with dummy dates. Basically make pre-world war 2 warfare mapped onto to the time frames allowable by the engine.

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:48 pm

Also, the real question I suppose, is does anyone here want to give a War Plan Orange PBEM a go? I'll play either side.

dave sindel · Post by **dave sindel** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:06 pm

Are you looking for a campaign game or one of the scenarios?

Revthought · Post by **Revthought** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:17 pm

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

Are you looking for a campaign game or one of the scenarios?

Campaign game, but totally negotiable. I've got 2 daily WITPAE PBEMs and a third 2 turns a week game going on. Since I have no life (recent transplant to the Midwest) I've got capacity for one more 1 turn a day average game, and I thought I'd make that a WPO game rather than WITPAE. Mostly because I can only (at this point) play the Allies in WITPAE and something different sounds nice--which would be either side in WPO.

Plus, I really like big ships that shoot each other as opposed to bomb eac other. I really miss Fighting Steel and the GNBNA series.

dave sindel · Post by **dave sindel** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:21 pm

Let me ponder on this. I've only got one PBEM game going on - but I'm new at it and still learning, so it's real time consuming. I can't imagine having 3 at one time. How do you keep them all straight ?

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