What do you think?

Tigers on the Hunt is a World War 2 hard-core tactical wargame for PC.

It creates a truly and immersive depth tactical simulation. Tigers on the Hunt boasts a ferocious and adaptive AI which will dynamically respond to a player’s maneuvers.

Moderators: Peter Fisla, Paullus

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madorosh
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RE: What do you think?

Post by madorosh »

ORIGINAL: Perelandra67

I sort of regret buying it, but only because of the assumptions I made about it. It "seemed" to be a lot more than it really is. It is not ASL, it is more like starter Kit ASL

This occurred to me when I was out for a walk, and you are right. No upper floors, no walls, etc. The comparison to ASL doesn't do this game justice. If there *has* to be one made, it would probably be closest to ASLSK but still with major differences.

If one can accept this game for its own merits, I think it will please people more. Obviously hard to do as ASL is always going to be the gold standard, whether it is comparing computer games, board games or board-like computer games...

Much to like here, but also lots that can be done to make it even better. I'm sure we all have our own lists. Flame weapons would be on mine, only because the CW used them very often after Normandy.
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Peter Fisla
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RE: What do you think?

Post by Peter Fisla »

Flame throwers and Molotov projector are in the game...
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madorosh
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RE: What do you think?

Post by madorosh »

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

Flame throwers and Molotov projector are in the game...

Thanks for this.
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Peter Fisla
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RE: What do you think?

Post by Peter Fisla »

ORIGINAL: Michael Dorosh

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

Flame throwers and Molotov projector are in the game...

Thanks for this.

Please see section 8.2 Appendix 8 for all support weapons, ordnance and AFVs in the game.
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madorosh
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RE: What do you think?

Post by madorosh »

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

ORIGINAL: Michael Dorosh

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

Flame throwers and Molotov projector are in the game...

Thanks for this.

Please see section 8.2 Appendix 8 for all support weapons, ordnance and AFVs in the game.

Yes, flipping through it just now. To be honest I was thinking of WASP and Crocodile vehicles, but it seems unfair to keep criticizing the game for what it doesn't have or include rather than what it does do. The list of vehicles and ordnance is impressive.
Gerry4321
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RE: What do you think?

Post by Gerry4321 »

And four nationalities. Very impressive for sure.
bo
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RE: What do you think?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Krys

I strongly recommend TOTH for any & all ASL fans. Map graphics are great, I really like the look of the unit graphics, and having played through 3 full games (in addition to all the tutorials) I'm very much enjoying the game play.

Would I like more information on a lot of areas? Yes; no question about it. I'd like either an appendix with a chart showing range and potential damage of all weapons, or perhaps a 'mouse roll-over popup' showing unit values, I'd like somewhere in the manual to point out that when adjacent to your target fire is double strength, that when you're outside of standard max range there is an "extended range" where you can still hit your target with reduced firepower. The existence of adjacent increased
firepower and extended range reduced firepower have been clarified by Peter in posts - but to the best of my knowledge aren't mentioned in the game manual, and since we don't know what standard
range of any weapon is, we can't possibly know what extended range is, where it begins, or how much damage it can do.

Some things that pop up in the game leave me a bit non-plussed. AFVs can become bogged. Ok, but what's the impact? How do they become 'unbogged'? Are they more vulnerable when bogged down, or
is the only impact that they can't more or change hull direction?

But to me, none of these are game breakers. It's still so very much like ASL that I'm greatly enjoying it. And of course there's also the Scenario Editor, which overall is very nicely done.

Lastly, Peter has absolutely dedicated massive efforts into what we have, and I am quite confident that he (and his associated) will keep working on and bettering TOTH for a long time to come.

Bottom line: Buy it. Heck, buy a couple and give one to a friend, the more Peter sells, the better the resource pool on which he can draw to keep making improvements and adding features. (Heck, he even put a map graphics mod out that I switched to immediately. The map that comes with the game is very good, but Peter's mod does a better job with hills and other elevation items, and has a bit nicer look overall. Very nice! And I ask you - when was the last time you saw a game developer release an alternate map graphics package within a day or two of a game's launch? Like...never....would be my guess.

Keep it up Peter!! And Jorgen - you guys are super!! [:)]


I have learned to never buy a game until several weeks go by, and what I am reading I still feel it is the correct thing to do, I am having a problem with "heck buy a game or two and help Peter out" no thank you Krys, this is his baby and he lives or dies with what he produced. I rebel in paying for a programmers mistakes [not saying there is any here].

If their is one thing I have learned as being a beta tester for World In Flames is one person creators of a game is not a good idea. I realize that each player sees the game differently than another, but what I am reading is not good, Then again I prefer strategic games over tactile games but that is just me, just an opinion right or wrong.

Bo
jascou
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RE: What do you think?

Post by jascou »

ORIGINAL: Michael Dorosh
ORIGINAL: Perelandra67

I sort of regret buying it, but only because of the assumptions I made about it. It "seemed" to be a lot more than it really is. It is not ASL, it is more like starter Kit ASL

This occurred to me when I was out for a walk, and you are right. No upper floors, no walls, etc. The comparison to ASL doesn't do this game justice. If there *has* to be one made, it would probably be closest to ASLSK but still with major differences.

If one can accept this game for its own merits, I think it will please people more. Obviously hard to do as ASL is always going to be the gold standard, whether it is comparing computer games, board games or board-like computer games...

Much to like here, but also lots that can be done to make it even better. I'm sure we all have our own lists. Flame weapons would be on mine, only because the CW used them very often after Normandy.


IMHO, the danger in adding more chrome at this point -- a 1.0 release -- would be a higher number of bugs created and the difficulty in trying to correct them without breaking other things. I think it was a wise decision on Peter's part to focus on getting the core rules working properly, release it, and deal with the inevitable bugs that will crop up -- before tackling deeper features.

I look at the current state as a solid core to build upon. I too would have loved the features mentioned here, but that would would have potentially created a whole mess of problems for the game at this stage. Peter has to ensure stability not just in the game, but with the editor as well. I think that he made the right set of trade-offs getting it to this point.

In terms of complaints about the UI so far, I can sympathize, but I also think that creating a more elaborate UI at this point would have created a situation of the developer painting himself into a corner early on. A sparse UI at this point makes a lot of sense from a development standpoint, IMO, as it is often the most difficult part of a program to change after everything has been set in stone. Hopefully, Peter is considering feedback and can make improvements that most people will be happy with.

Further, perhaps there some things that can be done better on a computer than in the board game, rendering some of the way ASL handles things unnecessary. We just don't know how or where this game can evolve to yet, but I am pretty enthused about what is in store.

Just my 2 cents.
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giffin
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RE: What do you think?

Post by giffin »

Thank you Peter for all the time you spent on this game! I added the VASL MOD from JMass with the Original Counters & Small markers with Original Terrain today. It brings back old memories of dusty counter pushed under the bed until I could play again when I was a kid. I bought the game the 1st day and have not regretted it. Look forward to more MODs and more scenarios to keep me coming back for more play time.[&o]
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Missouri_Rebel
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RE: What do you think?

Post by Missouri_Rebel »

Bo, when games come out people almost always have expectations on how it will play and operate and with those, come dissapointment. That is natural.

I don't own the game yet because I'm having ordering issues but, I have followed closely it's release, including a couple of twitch feeds.

Clearly there are a couple issues that most people think are missing/incomplete. Other complaints, and by far the most numerous, have been about the decision to have things running under the hood. I have my opinions on that but, at the end of the day, it was a design decision to implement it that way.

Still others were hoping it would be ASL on computer. I was in that camp but, prior to release, understood that that's not realistic.

Some believe the price was too high. I understand their concern yet, Matrix knows this genre better than most as evident by their almost sole position in the market.

Lastly there are those that do not care for it. Naturally those voices will be the loudest.

What should also be taken in consideration are all the people very happy with the game. This number is quite large by reading the posts. Of course many happy customers are also quiet on the forums. They may feel it not warranted to attack others views.

In spite of the single programmer, I think he should be applauded for his incredible effort of releasing a game with so few bugs. Even if there are things people want and wish, there is no mistaking that Peter spent a good effort on tight code. The one problem with resolution was quickly fixed after he went out and bought a new monitor to help him address it. Kudos for that type of support.

I'm not knocking your opinion at all, and even though I have been critical here concerning various aspects, this game is worthy of both praise and scrutiny.

At least in my opinion.

Now get to fixing my support ticket Matrix.

EDIT. Really not meant as an attack on your thoughts as much as a clarification on my position and views, of which, I've been pretty vocal.
**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford
jascou
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RE: What do you think?

Post by jascou »

ORIGINAL: bo

I have learned to never buy a game until several weeks go by, and what I am reading I still feel it is the correct thing to do, I am having a problem with "heck buy a game or two and help Peter out" no thank you Krys, this is his baby and he lives or dies with what he produced. I rebel in paying for a programmers mistakes [not saying there is any here].

If their is one thing I have learned as being a beta tester for World In Flames is one person creators of a game is not a good idea. I realize that each player sees the game differently than another, but what I am reading is not good, Then again I prefer strategic games over tactile games but that is just me, just an opinion right or wrong.

Bo

Hi Bo,
I'm a long time lurker on the MWIF forum, am an owner of the game, and have always appreciated your input there.

I think MWIF is a great example of what happens when a developer tries to bite off too much from the get-go. In following the progress of that game, it's clear to me that the problems with that project started long before Steve and Matrix got involved, with the decision by the original programmer to implement the majority of the WiF optional rules from the get-go. In looking at where most of the problems have cropped up, these appear related to the myriad of optional rules, and not the core system. More optional rules = more complexity in the code = more bugs.

Let's also keep in mind that MWIF, unlike the board-game, implements a map of the entire globe, thereby widening the depth of an already substantial Pandora's box of potential bugs.

(On a side-note, I've often thought about piping up on that forum and telling everyone to try playing the game with only 1 - 3 optional rules turned on if they want to dramatically reduce the possibility of coming up against a bug -- at least for the time-being until things get better sorted out -- but thought better of it; people have the right to expect the game that they paid for.)

As I stated above, the developer has avoided the same mistake in keeping things to a manageable level. The core is quite stable from what I see, which bodes well going forward.
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RobPollard
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RE: What do you think?

Post by RobPollard »

I think it is a very good game. I'm a long time ASL player and a once upon a time SL player.

Whilst this game doesn't have everything that ASL has - I have 2.5 rules binders full of rules - so hardly surprising - it comes surprisingly close to scratching that itch.

I'm playing it with the current ASL mods to make the counters look like ASL counters and this does make a big difference. For one thing, many of the stats on the counters do apply t the game, such as weapon ranges and even weapon power.

The fact that Matrix have thrown in a map editor and scenario designer makes this purchase a bit of a no-brainer!

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RE: What do you think?

Post by parusski »

ORIGINAL: Krys

I strongly recommend TOTH for any & all ASL fans. Map graphics are great, I really like the look of the unit graphics, and having played through 3 full games (in addition to all the tutorials) I'm very much enjoying the game play.

Would I like more information on a lot of areas? Yes; no question about it. I'd like either an appendix with a chart showing range and potential damage of all weapons, or perhaps a 'mouse roll-over popup' showing unit values, I'd like somewhere in the manual to point out that when adjacent to your target fire is double strength, that when you're outside of standard max range there is an "extended range" where you can still hit your target with reduced firepower. The existence of adjacent increased
firepower and extended range reduced firepower have been clarified by Peter in posts - but to the best of my knowledge aren't mentioned in the game manual, and since we don't know what standard
range of any weapon is, we can't possibly know what extended range is, where it begins, or how much damage it can do.

Some things that pop up in the game leave me a bit non-plussed. AFVs can become bogged. Ok, but what's the impact? How do they become 'unbogged'? Are they more vulnerable when bogged down, or
is the only impact that they can't more or change hull direction?

But to me, none of these are game breakers. It's still so very much like ASL that I'm greatly enjoying it. And of course there's also the Scenario Editor, which overall is very nicely done.

Lastly, Peter has absolutely dedicated massive efforts into what we have, and I am quite confident that he (and his associated) will keep working on and bettering TOTH for a long time to come.

Bottom line: Buy it. Heck, buy a couple and give one to a friend, the more Peter sells, the better the resource pool on which he can draw to keep making improvements and adding features. (Heck, he even put a map graphics mod out that I switched to immediately. The map that comes with the game is very good, but Peter's mod does a better job with hills and other elevation items, and has a bit nicer look overall. Very nice! And I ask you - when was the last time you saw a game developer release an alternate map graphics package within a day or two of a game's launch? Like...never....would be my guess.

Keep it up Peter!! And Jorgen - you guys are super!! [:)]

I have to support Krys in this discussion. From the first day I started beta testing(last year) I loved the game. It is what, as a Squad Leader fan, I always wanted in a pc version.
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman
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RE: What do you think?

Post by mavraamides »

I'm apparently a rarity on this forum as I have never played ASL.

I have played Steel Panthers and many of the CC games (not quite the same of course but about same scale).

I am really enjoying this game. The interface is a bit quirky and could use some streamlining. I've already made my recommendations in the requests thread so I won't repeat them here.

But the bottom line is I have greatly enjoyed playing the game so far. Definitely worth the $$ and I expect it to only get better.

It's one of those games where I keep telling myself 'just one more turn' and then I look up and it's 3:00 am. What more could you want?
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RE: What do you think?

Post by idjester »

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

I'm apparently a rarity on this forum as I have never played ASL.

I have played Steel Panthers and many of the CC games (not quite the same of course but about same scale).

I am really enjoying this game. The interface is a bit quirky and could use some streamlining. I've already made my recommendations in the requests thread so I won't repeat them here.

But the bottom line is I have greatly enjoyed playing the game so far. Definitely worth the $$ and I expect it to only get better.

It's one of those games where I keep telling myself 'just one more turn' and then I look up and it's 3:00 am. What more could you want?

I agree... The hours fly by when I play this game. It's always just "one more quick turn" and before you know it's late in the night.
That is a sign of a good game. Why can't work go by this fast... Only 4 hours more to go... ZZZZzzzzzz.....
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RE: What do you think?

Post by Redmarkus5 »

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bo
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RE: What do you think?

Post by bo »

Hi Reb, as always I enjoy your opinions, they are always thoughtful, usually never degrading of anyones effort and 99.99% you are usually right [;)]

I guess I am still smarting from MWIF using a single programmer, also I have to get used to playing a tacticle game as compared to a strategic game. Matrix is one of the few companies who refuse to put out a demo, now that might be Peter doing that [not making a demo] but with all the posts and youtube films I assume that player can determine if this type of game suits their needs for a good war game on the computer.

Always glad to hear from you Reb. and always appreciate your posts[;)]

Bo
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RE: What do you think?

Post by Missouri_Rebel »

You should really check out one of idjester's Live Streams. I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching another person play a game more than I have watching his streams.
**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford
bo
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RE: What do you think?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: jascou
ORIGINAL: bo

I have learned to never buy a game until several weeks go by, and what I am reading I still feel it is the correct thing to do, I am having a problem with "heck buy a game or two and help Peter out" no thank you Krys, this is his baby and he lives or dies with what he produced. I rebel in paying for a programmers mistakes [not saying there is any here].

If their is one thing I have learned as being a beta tester for World In Flames is one person creators of a game is not a good idea. I realize that each player sees the game differently than another, but what I am reading is not good, Then again I prefer strategic games over tactile games but that is just me, just an opinion right or wrong.

Bo

Hi Bo,
I'm a long time lurker on the MWIF forum, am an owner of the game, and have always appreciated your input there.

I think MWIF is a great example of what happens when a developer tries to bite off too much from the get-go. In following the progress of that game, it's clear to me that the problems with that project started long before Steve and Matrix got involved, with the decision by the original programmer to implement the majority of the WiF optional rules from the get-go. In looking at where most of the problems have cropped up, these appear related to the myriad of optional rules, and not the core system. More optional rules = more complexity in the code = more bugs.

Let's also keep in mind that MWIF, unlike the board-game, implements a map of the entire globe, thereby widening the depth of an already substantial Pandora's box of potential bugs.

(On a side-note, I've often thought about piping up on that forum and telling everyone to try playing the game with only 1 - 3 optional rules turned on if they want to dramatically reduce the possibility of coming up against a bug -- at least for the time-being until things get better sorted out -- but thought better of it; people have the right to expect the game that they paid for.)

As I stated above, the developer has avoided the same mistake in keeping things to a manageable level. The core is quite stable from what I see, which bodes well going forward.


jascou, you know what your problem is, you don't post enough. [;)] Could not agree more with what you are saying, I felt that MWIF could be streamlined, very few optional rules etc, I was shot down on that one and I understand where the board game players were coming from, the game had to be exactly as the board game.

Personally the MWIF game is the most brilliant game ever made as a strategic game, I have only known strategic games. My son only plays Battlefronts Combat Mission which is a tactile game with very few problems if any.

Steve did bite off more than he could chew, but the reason for that is that every rule had to be exactley as the board game and to me a non-programmer, that became the problem, Steve is dedicated to completeing this game someday when that day is I have no idea.

This game seems to keep the player more immersed than having to worry about this rule and that rule, even though I do prefer counters with information on them.

Thank you for your post.

Bo
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RE: What do you think?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

You should really check out one of idjester's Live Streams. I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching another person play a game more than I have watching his streams.


Will do, thank you Reb.

Bo
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