Combat Values

Tigers on the Hunt is a World War 2 hard-core tactical wargame for PC.

It creates a truly and immersive depth tactical simulation. Tigers on the Hunt boasts a ferocious and adaptive AI which will dynamically respond to a player’s maneuvers.

Moderators: Paullus, Peter Fisla

Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Gerry4321 »

Many people that play ASL etc. are OCD and like the detail. But other than that there is the issue for someone that has not played ASL. How would they have a clue as someone said whether to have a squad fire at say a wood building for a few turns before they realize that there was no hope of a result.

BTW is there long-range firepower implemented as in outside the normal range but not outside double the range. (With a German lmg I see white circles for the range but also smaller white squares reaching out a further 8 hexes so I assume this is long-range firepower but teh squads don't have this?) Thanks.

The game is very good and has the potential to be the most awesome wargame on the planet.
Paullus
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:41 am
Location: Sweden

RE: Combat Values

Post by Paullus »

yes there is long range fire power, halved.
For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus
Rosseau
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:20 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Rosseau »

Not too concerned about guessing the armor values. However, I was surprised about the deadliness of LMGs. So now I know...

Or at least I think I know. Not having played ASL, I am in for some surprises.
Perelandra67
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:21 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Perelandra67 »

I agree that in order to generate good tactics, as Peter has said is his object for the game, the creators would be best served by giving more information about what we are shooting, and what we are shooting at. I basically just fire away without any idea if it will hit or not, or even if I can penetrate the armor, etc.

I will enjoy the game for what it is - it is lots of fun!! but it is not for serious gamers who want to plan out tactics based on actual values or who want to know why you hit or missed.

again, this is a very enjoyable game, but lacks depth that will make me want to replay and really get into.
"Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics."
Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Gerry4321 »

The other key missing data is AFV movement points. As it costs to stop and also to change VCA you don't know now if you have enough points to get to a certain hex and then do those things. You could end up with your AFV just dangling out there as a juicy target.
korposp
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:49 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by korposp »

This game looks to me that you are just moving counters and firing and waiting what happened. Without combat values at the hand and knowing what actions cost how many points and what penalties you must count, also there is a no hit and damage probability info in the game or no values for its estimation, how can you plan your moves and develop some tactic? I am holding from buying and will wait if the game will be more transparent in near future.
Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Gerry4321 »

Well I figured out a way for movement - set up a test scenario (editor is easy to use). Results so far: StuG 42 = 13 MPs, Pz IIL = 18 MPs.
Paullus
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:41 am
Location: Sweden

RE: Combat Values

Post by Paullus »

Good move [;)]
For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus
Meroka37
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:12 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Meroka37 »

I'm  counting all vehicles MPs in a flat map and filling an excell with all MP (so far I would say all MP assigned are = ASL...)
'Better honor without ships, than ships without honor"
dje
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:06 pm

RE: Combat Values

Post by dje »

Perhaps I may offer assistance to some of those complaining about combat values, movement etc.

In the real world, I am a homicide detective. Using deductive reasoning and all available info I have come up with this conclusion.

A. If you look back to Peters posts circa 2006, the game then known as XASL looked exactly like ASL.

B. Somewhere along the line he changed the graphics from exact ASL counters to new counters and maps.

C. The game gets released with a mod (since when) that has the exact ASL maps and counters avail.

D. Somebody figures out that the numbers on the mod counters are exactly the same movement and fire values as ASL.

In conclusion, somewhere along the way Pete figured out or was told, he could not exactly replicate ASL, copyright infringe. etc. Pete changes these things but people not related to HIS project, release mods turning it essentially into ASL.

So therefore, ASL grognards, the game, counters etc. play almost exactly as ASL. You guys should be lovin' it.

If I a am wrong or my post reveals too much info, feel free to delete.

Love this game Pete, great work modders.
I will see you on the beach!
surfcandy
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:44 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by surfcandy »

ORIGINAL: korposp

This game looks to me that you are just moving counters and firing and waiting what happened. Without combat values at the hand and knowing what actions cost how many points and what penalties you must count, also there is a no hit and damage probability info in the game or no values for its estimation, how can you plan your moves and develop some tactic? I am holding from buying and will wait if the game will be more transparent in near future.


Well I'd like to clarify a few things you have stated since I have the game.

1-There is a button for viewing possible distance you can move in your move turn with the selected unit

2-Also a button to see the distance the unit you currently have selected can fire.

3-Each unit has a combat value of a letter A-H

4-ASL (if I remember ..long time played does not calculate probability)

5)Buildings,woods,orchards etc. have either hindrance or blocking along with movement for units

6-There is room for improvement on information presented but there is quite enough information presented to make a calculated tactical attack/defense etc.

7) More under the hood I've only played a few scenarios and a little more is revealed every time I play.


Hope that helped.

kylania
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:42 pm
Contact:

RE: Combat Values

Post by kylania »

ORIGINAL: Vin53

Well I'd like to clarify a few things you have stated since I have the game.

1-There is a button for viewing possible distance you can move in your move turn with the selected unit

Which button is that? You only ever see where you can move your next movement, not total distance possible.
surfcandy
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:44 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by surfcandy »

ORIGINAL: kylania

ORIGINAL: Vin53

Well I'd like to clarify a few things you have stated since I have the game.

1-There is a button for viewing possible distance you can move in your move turn with the selected unit

Which button is that? You only ever see where you can move your next movement, not total distance possible.


What exactly does that mean?
Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Gerry4321 »

There is no button that will show how far a unit can move taking terrain into account. Only help you get is you are told the last hex it can move into. Which doesn't help with planning.
Dietrich53
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:28 pm
Contact:

RE: Combat Values

Post by Dietrich53 »

To Vin53: [;)][:D][:D][:D]
B&D Publishing LLC - Books from Collectors for Collectors!
Perelandra67
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:21 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by Perelandra67 »

there's just a lot of guesswork involved in this game with moving and firing. As an ASL'er, there's a lot to like about this game and I know the developers put a lot of time into it. But, there's just not enough depth to provide a challenging wargaming experience.

the "504 turn campaign/scenario" is intriguing enough to stick around see what happens, but if it's just the same counter pushing and "see what happens" kind of thing, then there's just no way I'm going to play 504 turns.
"Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics."
surfcandy
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:44 am

RE: Combat Values

Post by surfcandy »

I understand the white outline around the unit ready to move with the final movement with a red outline around the unit. One question is why are there all those white dots showing when a unit is chosen for movement? That distance changes for example when a leader is added to the squad movement.it seems to be saying something about movement distance.
Paullus
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:41 am
Location: Sweden

RE: Combat Values

Post by Paullus »

You have the Fire Range Tool activated.It's the button with the red F in the Tool Bar at the top.
For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus
Vinya
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:40 pm

RE: Combat Values

Post by Vinya »

Being an active ASL player myself, I find pretty lame not having the actual values and rules governing combat in a wargame. I can play the game with my ASLRB so I can refer to the actual ASL rules, but not knowing how those rules have been implemented makes that also quite unuseful.

If the problem is ASL copyright infringement, then this game should have never been implemented or sold.

just my 2 cents...
proflui
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:38 am
Location: Hong Kong, now in Toronto

RE: Combat Values

Post by proflui »

Can some asl expert create an excel spreadsheet to show all the movement points for squad and afv in different command mode, plus the terrain movement cost. I do not play asl and in this state it is very difficult to play. Thanks.
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