Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

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fulcrum28
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Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by fulcrum28 »

As most of you, I'm always tempted to start (I started but never finished yet) a full campaign as Japanese player against AI. But the physical time required for that full campaign playing with a setting of a turn length of 1 day adds complexity to the game. Anyway, I still think that 1 day turn is the most accurate, but do you think that a turn length of 2 or 3 days could be also feasible in the sense that it reduces the time by a factor 2 or 3, respectively, and the air naval operations are not too much affected for this somehow "longer" time frame?

Or conversely, you all think that extending the physical time represented by a game turn may also lead to operational problems and inconsistencies in the game for a full campaign?

If someone has experienced these two different settings, it would be interesting to read them and learn more about this fantastic game.
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Alfred
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by Alfred »

Don't ask, just do it.
 
If you don't know enough about the game to feel you have to ask this sort of question, you are certainly not going to have the knowledge to understand the comments from others.  Just try out and learn for yourself what are the issues.  If you like it you can continue, and if you don't like it, just stop and start.  In any case against the AI it is easy to change the turn cycle midgame.
 
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by Canoerebel »

Back in WitP days, Miller and I played a two-day match, with Miller as Japan. We both liked it very much. Afterwards, Miller said he'd only play games with two-day turn cycles. He liked it that much.

Most players think two-day turns slows down Japan a bit at the outset of the war so that it's a bit of a disadvantage. In comparison to one-day turns, it does make the game move a lot faster.

There are all kinds of affects involved, but you just have to get a feel for it and adjust accordingly. For instance, if you send a TF into harm's way and it gets hit on Day One or spots trouble on Day One, you can't issue orders for it to retire. There are a zillion variations of that challenge.

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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by CyrusSpitama »

I find using the 2 day cycles is very useful for speeding the game along while also giving the AI a slight advantage. With me not having so much time to play, 2 day cycles also lets me see some actual progress when I only put in so many turns a week :) Without it, December alone is over a month real time for me! lol
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fulcrum28
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by fulcrum28 »

Thank you Cyrus and Canoerebel for sharing your previous experiences. This is more or less what I suspected, so I will "practise" it experimentally in-game, as Alfred suggested.
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by Lowpe »

Offensive ops are difficult to plan. Attacks at 1-1 or better get carried thru to the second day oftentimes with very bad results.

You can still plan carrier raids, but you need to use waypoints and much more care. Waypoints can be problematic at times.

You watch two replays (or three) so there is no time saving there (except against the AI and you turn off replays an summaries).

It is a mixed bag that does slow the pace of offensive operations down.

That second day replay can really cause stress.[X(]
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by pontiouspilot »

Multi-day turns are fine in AI but I personally can't imagine it working well versus a real player. It would commit a person to disaster without the same ability to run when needed. The upshot of this if I was playing would be a much more conservative approach and therefore perhaps a more boring game.
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by Canoerebel »

One-day turns suffer from the same problem, though you may not realize it. An example: In real life, you have patrols up and a big TF is inbound to an important island group. Your patrols spot a big enemy carrier TF 500 miles away. You stop your TF to see where the enemy moves next. If the enemy comes towards you, you pull your TF back. If the enemy moves away, perhaps you move forward.

Not in this game. In this game, you TF sails forward for 24 hours no matter what. You can't issue recall orders. You can't do anything.

It's even worse when you consider the ability of the enemy to use flank speed and really jump forward. You have them under surveillance for 24 hours...but your ships are not permitted to respond until after 24 hours due to the constraints of the game.

The situation is compounded with two-day turns, but there are also offsetting factors. If you catch your opponent unawares, you get two days of steaming without them being able to react. That can be a powerful offensive capability.

I really like two-day turns, though I still prefer to play one day at a time.
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28
As most of you, I'm always tempted to start (I started but never finished yet) a full campaign as Japanese player against AI.
Other forumites already gave you excellent advice on the differences. I just wanted to add that with the learning curve of this game with new things discovered in the process, the desire to restart the campaign and do things better next time might quickly overcome whatever attachment you had to the particular match. There are so many things you can screw up with Japan in the beginning.
Just start the GC with whatever turn structure and don't expect it to last ;) But save your 1st day turn for later usage
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by Lowpe »

Yep, just start it. If it is against the AI I recommend 2 day turns.

The neat thing against the AI is you can always take a day back if you screw up your settings and suffer a horrible turn.

Also remember it is a long war, so you don't need to be near as thorough as you would have to be with a pbem game.

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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by rustysi »

Not in this game. In this game, you TF sails forward for 24 hours no matter what. You can't issue recall orders. You can't do anything.

You can mitigate this a bit with settings, such as retirement and threat tolerance.
I just wanted to add that with the learning curve of this game with new things discovered in the process, the desire to restart the campaign and do things better next time might quickly overcome whatever attachment you had to the particular match. There are so many things you can screw up with Japan in the beginning.

I found this to be true in my early forays into this game. Against the AI though I suggest that you soldier on anyway as you'll learn a lot more and save yourself time in the process. Unless of course you really hose things up. I've been tempted to terminate my current game, but as I continue through I constantly learn things that I would not have if I'd just gone back to the beginning.
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by geofflambert »

I will not be satisfied until someone adapts this game to one hour turns. I wish to be encased in amber while playing the game, so that future intelligent beings (native or alien) will fully understand how stupid our species was.

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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by geofflambert »

I was referring to gorns, of course.

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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I was referring to gorns, of course.

Of course, we all know how intelligent and advanced we humans are.[8|]
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by CyrusSpitama »

As far as making mistakes and not being able to give orders out for 2 day turns please realize, if you are pushing hard into an unknown area, the risks ( and rewards) can be very high. I do not worry so much on these risks unless its an overwhelming defeat and one that can cripple the rest of my war efforts. My goals for the game have been mostly to learn how to get JPN rolling in the early war. I expect some losses for attempting daring deeds. Most heroes don't make a decision based on knowing it is heroic, they just see a need and move ahead with the decision. As another poster mentioned, the routing and threat settings are here for just this purpose. The AI is not known for being especially tricky. Often a little recon and naval search tells you all you need to know of an area, with little risk to you.

With the above stated, I have been known to reload some particularly disastrous turns. An advantage not given when playing a person vs. AI. I can think of a particular reload on one of my forays into Singapore area where some danged Swordfish found their way into sinking a big chunk of the KB. I do hate how your CAP gets worn down with successive attacks leaving the torp bombers to do their damage uncontested. I find myself tempted at times to use this CAP overwhelm tactic on certain bases, but have yet gone ahead with it. I just set my planes and hope for best possible coordination. Not sure how the AI manages so many attack waves on my fleets :)
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rustysi
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by rustysi »

I do hate how your CAP gets worn down with successive attacks leaving the torp bombers to do their damage uncontested.

Exactly what happened to Japan in RL at the Battle of Midway. Only real difference was it was the dive bombers that got through uncontested.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by pontiouspilot »

Damm...I get seasick every time I read your posts...that wiggling head reminds me of dash ornament on a Cuban car!!
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by Pilsator »

you can always switch between 1 or 2 day turns vs the AI.
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by bush »

I think using multiple day turns when playing against the AI is a nice way to balance it a bit. However, I stagger that as the years progress. So, the 1st 6 months of the war (Yamamoto´s 6 months), I use 4(!) day turns. The next 6 months I go to 3-day turns, beginning of ´43 I cut back to 2-day and finally by mid-43 I am at single day/single turn. By then, there are many things I want to have tighter control over.
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RE: Impact of turn length 1-day, 2-days, 3-days in campaign

Post by fulcrum28 »

that is an interesting suggestion, bushpsu. [:)]
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