Ambush falling apart,

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

Moderators: WildCatNL, cbelva, IronManBeta, CapnDarwin, IronMikeGolf, Mad Russian

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Zakalwe101
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Ambush falling apart,

Post by Zakalwe101 »

Help
Ambush falling apart,
D company 2nd Battalion 66th Armd Reg’t form part of the Battalion engagement area taking soviet forces under fire as they pass along the N71 south east toward Rotenburg. Enemy contact has been heavy, all three platoons have expended all their ammunition , this is where my plan goes wrong,
All three platoons having been in hex 3020 in hold dug in posture end up changing to screen mode , displacing into open hexes , toward spotted enemy , then changing to resupply mode.

As it happened this cost them 2 M1A1’s , fate of the crews unknown.

How do I stop this happening, I can understand a forced displacement to resupply backward into Waffensen ?

Z


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Mad Russian
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by Mad Russian »

I don't understand the question.

Are you asking how you keep your tank crews from being disoriented in battle?

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Zakalwe101
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by Zakalwe101 »

Hi,
if their displacement toward the enemy out of cover to resupply is a simulation of battlefield confusion SNAFU, (game engine randomisation), then I guess I'll grit my teeth and have the platoon commanders court martialled later,(if they survive...it's very frustrating when subordinates don't do as you ask them and tiresome when you have to get them to repeat back to you what you've asked them to do no matter how simple.....how I've wished at times to reach across the airwaves and strangle someone...) but the question; is there a way of ensuring they displace into cover (if available) to resupply ? I ask this as when the first platoon drove out into the open I paused the game and took a look at them manual to try and work out what had gone wrong, the manual as I read it says they first scoot away from enemy contact.
This was a mandatory resupply, not one that I had ordered.

regards

Z

ps The Soviets went down hard in this scenario, but as I'm still learning, so have only disabled emergency resupply and enemy units always visible, it may well be different story next time.
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CapnDarwin
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by CapnDarwin »

Some movements happen if the unit is under duress like outnumbered or shaken by losses or fire. For the most part the AI is weighted to move away from visible threats. In some cases a unit may move closer to a unit someone else sees, but it doesn't. We also made a couple fixes for the 11 beta that should reduce the tendency some as well.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
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cbelva
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by cbelva »

Welcome to my world. This is something I have screams and yelled and beat my head against the walls for a long time now . It is better but not perfect. For now I just take it for combat chaos. That does happen in real life. One thing this game does not simulate is units going to the wrong location than they are ordered to. I witnessed that quite a bit. I would like to see the ability to set a fall back location or a fall back direction for a unit. I am pushing for something like that in the 2.1 engine.
 
BTW--That is a great scenario and location for an ambush. Place a mech plt into forests south of the ridge and the Soviets will have a hard time getting off and around the ridge.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
pzgndr
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by pzgndr »

ORIGINAL: cbelva
Welcome to my world. This is something I have screams and yelled and beat my head against the walls for a long time now . It is better but not perfect. For now I just take it for combat chaos.

I grudgingly accept most of the automated stuff now while we await Southern Storm. But lately my gripe has been when I specifically order a unit in screen posture to displace before they become decisively engaged and it takes an entire order cycle or more (30-40+ minutes sometimes?) before they start moving, usually with unnecessary losses at that point, that's just not right. It was frustrating before the last update did something with orders delays for posture changes; it's beyond frustrating now.
Bill Macon
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Mad Russian
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: pzgndr


I grudgingly accept most of the automated stuff now while we await Southern Storm. But lately my gripe has been when I specifically order a unit in screen posture to displace before they become decisively engaged and it takes an entire order cycle or more (30-40+ minutes sometimes?) before they start moving, usually with unnecessary losses at that point, that's just not right. It was frustrating before the last update did something with orders delays for posture changes; it's beyond frustrating now.

You guys can continue to beat this dead horse all you want. With the current system all that can be done is to move the slider. We make 5 of you happy by adjusting the orders cycle and it makes 10 other people upset. We can keep moving that slider back and forth with each update....or....we can spend our time actually fixing that issue and getting the 2.1 game set to you.

We've chosen the later.

There are several issues that need addressed. Scooting is just one of those. To do a quality job in fixing the issues we need to make far reaching changes than a 10 hour patch can do.

We've heard you about this and other things. Often...and loudly...and we are listening...but, you have to give us the time it takes to fix it right and not just put a moving bandaid on it.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
pzgndr
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by pzgndr »

MR, stick to your scenarios please, unless you are now the official OTS spokesperson for everything.  How are those rebalanced scenarios coming along anyways?
 
Since my one specific comment has been a reconsideration of the recent code change made to orders delay for posture changes, responses from Capn Darwin or cbelva regarding code development would be more helpful and less annoying. 
Bill Macon
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CapnDarwin
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by CapnDarwin »

pzgndr and crew, let's try to stay civil with comments. For starters, Steve (Mad Russian) is an OTS developer and can speak to all aspects of the project and he also is able to provide insight into what our code changes (rob and I do to gameplay and scenario balance. His comments above were open and honest and a spot on assessment of what we are working toward. We know the command delays and the ability to set a withdrawal order are items of interest to many players and to us as well to make the game engine better in the future. We are working those issues for Southern Storm as pointed out above.

Again let's all keep things on an even keel and we will get there in due time. Thanks. [8D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
pzgndr
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by pzgndr »

Capn, I will wait and see what happens with orders delays in v2.011, otherwise this goes on the back burner and I will wait and see what happens with Southern Storm. Thanks.
Bill Macon
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Mad Russian
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

MR, stick to your scenarios please, unless you are now the official OTS spokesperson for everything.  How are those rebalanced scenarios coming along anyways?
 

You don't get rebalanced scenarios if the code is still being worked on. They have been rebalanced at least twice already. But until the code is finally fixed there is no sense in releasing them and have them still not be correct. Or do you want those now?

We answer questions as a group. I will give you that both Capn and Charles are more diplomatic than I am after the same issue or comments have been made more than a dozen times. Time I just defer to them and find other things to do. My apologies.


Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Zakalwe101
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by Zakalwe101 »

MR - Apologies if I have raked over old coals here, I did try a search of the forums to see if this had been raised before but couldn't find anything on resupply scooting( rubbish search parameters on my part ?)

The radio message was "get resupplied, then we will advance," got heard as "advance to get resupplied." possible ?
Anyway it got exciting as I chewed my lip wondering how it would go .....but isn't that the point of playing ?
regards

Z
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Mad Russian
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RE: Ambush falling apart,

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: Zakalwe101

MR - Apologies if I have raked over old coals here, I did try a search of the forums to see if this had been raised before but couldn't find anything on resupply scooting( rubbish search parameters on my part ?)

We have no problem answering questions or comments. When the same issue is brought up by the same poster over and over it takes time away from us actually fixing the issue. My point to pngndr is that we can either keep answering those same questions or we can move onto fixing them. He didn't like my answer. It's the best one we have. We have committed to answering all the questions and comments made by those that buy the game. When the same issue comes up over and over they get answered every time. Every - single - time. Our answer to the scooting issue has been the same for some time now. The fix is coming with Southern Storm.

The radio message was "get resupplied, then we will advance," got heard as "advance to get resupplied." possible ?
Anyway it got exciting as I chewed my lip wondering how it would go .....but isn't that the point of playing ?
regards

Z

There are some issues in the game that we are working on. The stance of a unit is upper most on that list.

How offensive/defensive will they be? That entails lots of things, not least of which is scooting. Secondary fall back positions and direction of retreat is also on that list. BUT, for the game to retain it's realism there will be times when your units will ignore what you told them to do. It's what happens in the real world.

We understand we won't make everyone happy with the choices we make. First and foremost we have to like it or the rest of you will never see it. We're working on it as fast as we can. Repeatedly beating the dead horse actually works to the disadvantage of all of us because we have to come back and address the issue again. Which we will do because that's our commitment to all of you.

Good Hunting.

MR


The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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