Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[witpqs]

Complete combat report (attached but not displayed).

[BBfanboy]

Congrats on taking one of your key objectives on the first try!
The British CV strike was disappointing - all those great torps wasted on small fry instead of the CAs.

[Drakanel]

Didn't expect a first day conquer of Daito Shoto. Yes, knew it was possible, but it's a pretty good result! 32 to 1 final odds, wasn't really expecting that. Though the base is pretty wasted and not developed at all. How much are you going to develop the airfield? Just up to 3, or do you plan to go all the way to 6? Will you also build up the port?


Also, the RN strike was really disappointing. At LEAST Suzuya and Mikuma in port, not counting other TFs, and they hit unimportant ships. No tea for them until they do better!

[Lowpe]

Daito![X(]

OMG, what happened![X(][X(][X(]

[witpqs]

Yeah, the RN strike was a let down. It was wasn't for lack of trying, though. The replay showed a number of attacks against the two CA, but they wriggled around the torpedoes every time!

I was hoping for a D-Day capture of Daito Shoto and began to think it was really possible with the good bombardment results, and no loaded transports sunk by subs. Thought a good result that reduced the forts was most likely. Never expected 32 to 1 final odds! [:)]

There are a whole pack of engineers waiting to develop the airfield all the way up to 6. The port will also go to full size, although I might build some fortifications before switching to port building to help defend against adventurous naval bombardments because DS is pretty close in to major IJN bases. Problem is there are still well over Japanese 24,000 troops on the island. The base is damaged so much that the combat units' engineers will not be able to finish repairs even by the time the engineering units arrive. The air strikes and one naval bombardment per day will continue until the next ground assault. More naval bombardments (from cruisers, I mean) might commence one AKE arrive to replenish them at DS. A fleet oiler convoy is also heading in from Iwo Jima. At size 1 the port itself won't be able to do squat even when it's fully repaired. Gonna keep the defenders' disruption as high as possible, just have no idea how long it will take to secure the island.

Can LRCAP (not just CAP) run from a size 1 airfield, or will I have to wait until the airfield expands?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Daito![X(]

OMG, what happened![X(][X(][X(]

Sorry, man. A support team is being sent to your house! [:D]

[bush]

Hello George, Several of questions: 1- Noticed that you still have Marines broken down in rgts. Is that by design, or is it due to TOE updates/different divisions? 2- Are there LCI(G) units in your amph. TFs? Do they seem to provide support as intended? 3- Finally, which battle/campaign would YOU describe as your Guadalcanal, meaning a time when both sides were equal, the air-sea-land battles were all of equal importance, that place where after you had success the current (seeming) steamroller began? Thanks for the insights.

[zuluhour]

interesting... I could not find a decent WWII map nor photos of DS.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Hello George, Several of questions: 1- Noticed that you still have Marines broken down in rgts. Is that by design, or is it due to TOE updates/different divisions?
By player intent. IIRC that is the 6th USMC Division. By the time we got to the component regiments arriving, changes had been made in the game code that better distributed damage in larger battles. It used to be that in any large battles small units were completely wiped out, almost just as a consequence of being there. I know it can still happen, just like a whole division can be laid low, but it's much less likely. Look at the damage to those three regiments and you can see that taken as a division their division got damaged the most.

Many regiments arrive with good COs. When you combine into a division, you lose them and get the division commander, or assign a good one as you see fit. When you later break down a division into /A /B /C "regiments", /A gets the division CO for a CO while /B and /C get some randomly sort of assigned CO. In my case, one or both of those is usually awful. So by keeping a division in the original regiments I am keeping the good commanders so I can use the individual regiments for smaller targets (or otherwise just separately) later on.

I decided to cross my fingers and test that the code changes worked as intended, and they have.

2- Are there LCI(G) units in your amph. TFs?
Not in these ones, but all available were in the Naha/Nago landings. These landings were all APA & AKA. I did use AK and LST for supply-only convoys.

Do they seem to provide support as intended?
Yes, I think they are great! One problem with amphibious fire support in the game is that many of the warships involved use up their relevant ammo by the end of the first day. So (when I can) I keep separate TFs with extra DD/DE and gun-LCI types to swap in for depleted comrades during the orders phase.

3- Finally, which battle/campaign would YOU describe as your Guadalcanal, meaning a time when both sides were equal, the air-sea-land battles were all of equal importance, that place where after you had success the current (seeming) steamroller began?
Really hard to answer from here. Might change after I think about it. Maybe the campaign below the Solomons (New Hebrides and Santa Cruz Islands) working into the Solomons? I think there and in the Solomons campaign was where enough IJN carriers were damaged that I could spend that time on Truk.

Another candidate is Burma, especially if you include the many ferocious naval battles leading up to and protecting the landings at Pegu/Moulmein. Similar to the earlier damage/losses allowing time for Truk, the outcome of the battles there made the Cam Ranh Bay landings and expansion "easy" compared to if the IJN and all those IJA units had been intact and in position to oppose the CRB operation.

Thanks for the insights.

[Crackaces]

The real question for me is what next? Once DS is secure and the field build up to support 4E's (about a month or so?)
Oki is going to be untenable for the IJ, plus a few of your better trained ASW squadrons should clean house on subs.

Is Downfall next? Or a foray over to Formosa? With China mainland being secure I am not sure there is a Strategic value to Formosa,
but there might be a VP plus at the end of the campaign. If anything eliminate backdoor attacks ...

I'm convinced that the IJ needs to be severely weakened and depleted before starting into a war of attrition.
But you continue to surprise me with bold moves that work out in the end. [8D]

[Rio Bravo]

witpqs-

Have you noticed that a particular U. S. Army Infantry Division consistently performs better than the others.

Same question for the Marines.

Or, is it to hard to tell considering the circumstances for the battles are always different?

Just curious on this question: Do you have a favorite Infantry Division?

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Lowpe]

Ok, I feel a little better. I looked up the Ind Mxd Brigade that was there and it was junk. The Ind Tank unit I know is very small, like 10 tanks, there simply wasn't enough muscle there to stop two Marine Divisions plus.

With Japan, the TOE can vary so wildly, some troops aren't fit for much more the rear area garrison duty. Unfortunately.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The real question for me is what next? Once DS is secure and the field build up to support 4E's (about a month or so?)
Oki is going to be untenable for the IJ, plus a few of your better trained ASW squadrons should clean house on subs.

Is Downfall next? Or a foray over to Formosa? With China mainland being secure I am not sure there is a Strategic value to Formosa,
but there might be a VP plus at the end of the campaign. If anything eliminate backdoor attacks ...

I'm convinced that the IJ needs to be severely weakened and depleted before starting into a war of attrition.
But you continue to surprise me with bold moves that work out in the end. [8D]

I am with you Crackaces.[&o]

I think he has mentioned Formosa once or twice to totally seal off the Empire - so that is what I bet.[:)]

[witpqs]

Mine in this color.

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The real question for me is what next? Once DS is secure and the field build up to support 4E's (about a month or so?)
Oki is going to be untenable for the IJ, plus a few of your better trained ASW squadrons should clean house on subs.
The entire Okinawa region is currently being taken. Getting the landings in on Okinawa itself was first, to take advantage of surprise and make the landings cost less. Plus, I think it made the Daito Shoto operation safer (except for subs, which would be present in any event), because the Naha and Nago airfields have not been operating. That was partly psychological due to the Allies being able to begin ground attacks at any time.

There will be no pause in operations to let Daito Shoto build up. We need to secure the island and get almost all the combat troops off, plus provide cover to assets going into Daito Shoto.

DS will provide LRCAP to Naha ASAP, but I'll bet that takes a week at least. The carriers will be able to provide some cover sooner. As soon as replenishment can be done at DS, Amami Oshima (a close in source of kamikaze attacks) can be closed via frequent cruiser bombardment. We will be dumping a "crap-ton" more supply into Naha. Transports will gather and then load the assault forces for the next target, either Okinoerabushima or Tokunoshima as they are closest and partly protected by Okinawa from westward sea attack. Meanwhile attacks at Naha will begin.

Is Downfall next?
My rendition of a Home Islands invasion will come, but not yet. As you mention below, IJ needs to be severaly weakened before a war of attrition and as far as I see in other AAR, an invasion of the Home Islands is a battle of attrition.
Or a foray over to Formosa? With China mainland being secure I am not sure there is a Strategic value to Formosa,
but there might be a VP plus at the end of the campaign. If anything eliminate backdoor attacks ...
Formosa has several values, including security (your backdoor attacks point). For one thing, China is not secure and probably will not be so for the remainder of the game. It's maneuver, take key objectives, and destroy formations trapped in the process. Just like near Cam Ranh bay, Vinh, and Lang Son. We would need far more strength to take on all of their strength (campaign of attrition!) and so instead have to thrust and carve our way through. Formosa offers bases close at hand, safety for bypass amphibious ops, and certainly adds volume to the bases available in the Okinawa region (closer to China although farther away from the Home Islands).

After the Okinawa targets are taken, Formosa is next. It still remains to be seen if our ground campaign in China will by then have made it as far as Canton or Hong Kong, or be hung up in the woods before Wuchow.

I'm convinced that the IJ needs to be severely weakened and depleted before starting into a war of attrition.
Agree totally.
But you continue to surprise me with bold moves that work out in the end. [8D]
The bold thrusts are not aimed at strength, they are aimed at weakness and/or bypassing greater strength. Even Okinawa itself, while strongly defended, is a very valuable target which is isolated and positioned such that we can bring greater strength to bear without the enemy matching it.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

witpqs-

Have you noticed that a particular U. S. Army Infantry Division consistently performs better than the others.

Same question for the Marines.

Or, is it to hard to tell considering the circumstances for the battles are always different?

Just curious on this question: Do you have a favorite Infantry Division?

Best Regards,

-Terry

Not that I've been able to tell and I haven't really tried to keep track of that. The battles are different and with several units in many it's almost impossible to tell for sure. No favorites here!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ok, I feel a little better. I looked up the Ind Mxd Brigade that was there and it was junk. The Ind Tank unit I know is very small, like 10 tanks, there simply wasn't enough muscle there to stop two Marine Divisions plus.

With Japan, the TOE can vary so wildly, some troops aren't fit for much more the rear area garrison duty. Unfortunately.

Make that three full Marine divisions, plus a USA ID, plus a (smallish) USA IR, plus loads of tanks and only modest artillery. I deliberately stacked the deck for Daito Shoto because I see it's use as a key factor in the Naha battle in the game (it wasn't IRL, of course).

With the naval bombardments lately plus the other support, I think even better units would have had very little firing during the approach phases of the ground combat (or whatever they are called) and might only have reduced the odds, not the outcome.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The real question for me is what next? Once DS is secure and the field build up to support 4E's (about a month or so?)
Oki is going to be untenable for the IJ, plus a few of your better trained ASW squadrons should clean house on subs.

Is Downfall next? Or a foray over to Formosa? With China mainland being secure I am not sure there is a Strategic value to Formosa,
but there might be a VP plus at the end of the campaign. If anything eliminate backdoor attacks ...

I'm convinced that the IJ needs to be severely weakened and depleted before starting into a war of attrition.
But you continue to surprise me with bold moves that work out in the end. [8D]

I am with you Crackaces.[&o]

I think he has mentioned Formosa once or twice to totally seal off the Empire - so that is what I bet.[:)]

Yep - after all the Okinawa targets. Although there is a slim possibility that enough naval support for that operation could be had before then. We are getting loads of APA now, like chocolates shooting past Lucy in the candy factory.

[RangerJoe]

Very nicely done! I am off the forum for a few days because I was relocated and you took care of a little potential pain.

Remember, you can always fly in some aviation squads and operate float planes at Daito to counter the subs. Also, a few dive bomber and carrier torpedo squadrons dedicated to 100% ASW might also help.

I found this site while looking for pictures of Daito Shoto during the war (I failed) but there are a few pictures of Okinawa. The saddest is on the fourth page, the second from the left on the bottom row:

http://ww2db.com/photo.php?list=search& ... &image_id=

[witpqs]

Among the support ships headed to Daito Shoto are two AVD that will support at least a 12-plane squadron. Although naval search would be the natural mission, ASW might be the trick for a short time until we get that infestation under control!

[Lowpe]

That is not an infestation, it is opportunity knocking. I have to tell you everything. Sheesh![:D][:D]