Squadron/AC Withdrawl-Disband...Again

[Willaverill]

All I have read/searched the forums/manual/net till my brains have fried and my eyes are bleeding.

Let me use my example:
I am in the 1st week of '42. I have 4 P40B squadrons set to withdraw at the end of the month, located in Ogden.

I am wanting to "fill out" some other squadrons not withdrawing (I.e. I have 1 p38 squadron).

My goal was to withdraw the Ogden squadrons, then use the P-40B's to "upgrade" the Restricted P-38 squadrons with them.
Then use the P-38's returned to fill out the unrestricted P-38 sq.

I withdrew 2 of the 4 P-40B squadrons. Nothing appeared in the pool (pilots or planes).

Question:
1. If I with withdraw and get the "Lose planes/pilots" message are they gone? (can not seem to find a definite answer.)
2. Do I have to transfer them to their HQ to accomplish the "return to the pool"
3. Did I miss a vital piece of the puzzle. I saved just before I did it so I could undo If it did not do what was intended.
4. I have other squadrons that will be doing the same thing, and would love to get rid of some crappy airframes and not the P-40Es.

Thanks for your help. This topic seems to be clear as mud (at least to me).

[BBfanboy]

1. Yes, you lose both if it says so, although I think it is possible to transfer the pilots to the reserve pool and withdraw the pilotless squadron. The loss or retention of aircraft on withdrawal is pre-set in the squadron data. You cannot change it (unless you edit the database, I believe) and that would require a new game start.
Note that if the squadron screen has purple text saying "Squadron will return in (month/year) some planes will return with it.
Also note that it takes a few days for any aircraft NOT lost to cycle into the pool. They go to depots to get refurbished (remove all aircraft fatigue and damage) before they are made available in the pool.

2. You do not have to have them near the HQ to withdraw them, providing you meet other criteria like AF size or "National Base".

3. & 4. I think you have the right idea on swapping aircraft to get the best ones to deployable squadrons. But it is not an immediate process since there is a time lag getting aircraft into the pools. Make sure other squadrons using the aircraft type do not grab them before you do your downgrades. And, IIRC, you need the full complement of planes in the pool for the squadron to do a downgrade - i.e. if the squadron TOE is 25 aircraft you will not be able to do the downgrade until you have 25 of the older aircraft in the pool. It does not matter if the squadron has only 8 of the newer aircraft you are trying to get into the pool - they will still transfer when you bring in the older aircraft.

[ckk]

IIRC Withdrawal represents transfer to other theaters like ETO. So without changing the game you can"t save the frames. You can save the pilots by moving them to reserve

[jmalter]

I always remove the pilots (transfer them to the Reserve pool) from all withdraw/disband airgroups. 'Downgrading' a wd/db sqn to less-capable airframes is a good idea, but PDU must be on, & you can't downgrade a scheduled-to-withdraw sqn unless you have its full complement of airframes available in your pools.

Sometimes, you can gain some PPs by withdrawing a sqn before its scheduled date, even 1 day before.

I've only recently learned that air-groups can be up/downgraded if less than their full complement is available in the pools, however, this option is only available if the group is *not* scheduled to withdraw or disband.

[Willaverill]

I have a small but as of yet inconclusive update.

I stepped back 2 turns to undo what gaff I had done.

I re looked at some more older posts and ran an experiment. my 1st units to disband are some b-17 squadrons in 17 days or so. There are 2 squadrons (of 2 ea) at Chungking, which coincidently is their HQ as well. I was able to withdraw them and return the pilots and planes to the pool.

My fighters I want to withdraw are attached to the IV Fighter command, which is in Seattle. They were sent there to run another experiment. The state-side bomber groups that are withdrawing ( mostly bolos 1st, then b-17's later) are located on the East Coast and attached to the IV bomber command in San Fran. So I sent them all packing for the City by the Bay. If I can withdraw them, I will use the bolos to fill the permanent squadrons stateside. The p-38s are attached to the IV Bomber squadron as well and went to San Fran. I will park them there training to see If I can fill them up with the useless fighter frames.

I wish I knew this sooner lol, I just shut off all replacements and upgrades about 4 days ago. I did get one fighter squadron in Pearl to switch to P-40E, so I should be getting some silly airframes for the states.

It appears to keep planes and pilots you need to be at your Base HQ (or its range of influence) for the squadron, or its parent HQ, WITH 20K supply. Oh and make sure the squadron you are trying to upgrade/fill is stood down for faster refill.

I will post more conclusive results tomorrow.

[John B.]

One house rule I play with is that you can pull the pilots from the squadrons that are withdrawing but you have to replace them with someone since I don't think you'd be able to just send empty planes. So, the trained pilots come out and newbies get put in and then they get withdrawn. Not a big deal either way but it somehow seems a bit more realistic.

[Alfred]

There are no such criteria as have been posted in the previous posts.
 

• Airfield size is not considered
• Location at the National Base is not taken into account
• Being within range of the "Base HQ" is not relevant
• Having 20k supply threshold at the base has zero impact on the process

It really is quite simple.  How can the message that you will lose the planes/pilots if you proceed mean anything other than what it plainly says.  There is no ambiguity in the message.
 
There are two types of withdrawals, and this applies to land as well as air units.
 
1.  If the unit is being sent out of theatre (usually to the European Theatre) you lose whatever is in it at the time of withdrawal.  This is why you can't disband a land unit at the National Base if it is scheduled to be withdrawn.
 
2.  If the unit is only temporarily being removed (usually it gets reformed subsequently and is sent back to the PTO) you keep what is in the unit.  Which is the reason why you can administratively disband a land unit at the National Base and the devices go into the pool.
 
Alfred

[Willaverill]

Thank you Alfred,
You are a living, at least I think so, manual.

The 2 withdrawing bomber squads in Chungking allow withdraw and return pilots and planes to the pool (Inop planes have a chance of being lost)
Most of the withdraw in '42 are disband-gone (sigh) but there are a couple that attempt to shuffle their aircraft into other "Like" squadrons.
A couple of squadrons in HI say disband-"return in 60 days" or withdraw-"return in 120 days". When I said yes to those it sent all into the pools.
Other groups offer some PP for early with draw. 1 gamey thing I did find was one bomber squadron offered PP, if I said no it wanted to distribute the group assets to another like squadron. All the like squadrons were "red" meaning they would over fill with the full compliment. So I split the group. Then, and this is a gamey part or glitch, it offered the same PP for each fragment. (45PP ea.) I wanted the assets so I declined each time.

So now, What happens to over strength air groups? I unloaded a fighter squadron using withdraw that allowed me to assign its assets to another squadron. I have a fighter squadron that has max 25, yet there are 30 working craft. I know the pilot pool for that asset is now stretched as my max pilots is based off the 25.
Where did the "extra" aircraft go as it only put an extra 7 out of 17 aircraft in the squadron. Also it appears I didn't get the pilots either. (No biggie as they were mostly green anyhow)

A fighter squadron has 3 of 5 max aircraft in it. I turned off the reinforcements a while back to build my pool. I am attempting to "upgrade" a P-40E asset it the P-26. Do I need 3 or 5 of the P-26's. Also when does this trigger?
I have enough p-36 to "upgrade" all my P-38 squadrons that are scheduled to withdraw.

Side note,
I am going to look at the editor tonight to see what triggers the various Disband/Withdraw actions.

As before I did a save before I started playing with the air assets.

[Willaverill]

Update and a couple of Questions.

I can not seem to find the "trigger" in the editor that determines when and if you can get planes returned to the pool. It was hit and miss. I just had to click each Sqn and see If I got a massage to rebuild or return all to the pools.

I was able to pool some better planes by upgrading some of the withdrawing squadrons to P-36's and Bolo's. I also changed plane types for a couple of Dutch fighter Sqnas to types where I had bigger pools for replacements.

Questions:

On my operations report I get a aircraft delayed statement the reads #(#) Plane type. I assume the first # is how many went into my "ready" pool. Is the (#) how many will be "ready" at the beginning of my next turn?

Bill

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: Willaverill
On my operations report I get a aircraft delayed statement the reads #(#) Plane type. I assume the first # is how many went into my "ready" pool. Is the (#) how many will be "ready" at the beginning of my next turn?

The (#) is the number of planes still in the pipeline. They might all be available at the next turn, but more likely they'll trickle into the pool over 2 or more turns.