On track or not??

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Zigurat666
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On track or not??

Post by Zigurat666 »

PLaying Babes C for the first time or any of the Babes scenarios for that matter. Just wondering since the economy is drastically different than stock,it is November of 42 and I,ve stockpiled 1072469 HI points. Is this considered normal,behind the curve or ahead of the curve? I would like to adjust. .
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Lokasenna
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Lokasenna »

IMO, that is a large amount. I don't think I had that much in a Scen 2 stock game in November 1942.
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PaxMondo
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RE: On track or not??

Post by PaxMondo »

1M HI in pool by end of 42 ... that's good. My target is >4M by 6/44, so you are easily on pace to meet that.
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Alpha77
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Alpha77 »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1M HI in pool by end of 42 ... that's good. My target is >4M by 6/44, so you are easily on pace to meet that.

IIRC I am also now just over 1M in end of Aug 42. It is also the small "Babes". Even if I am really not overextending my industry/spendings etc. I wonder if this is maybe a bit too high.

Also what is so drastically different to stock in this scenario, OP ?
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PaxMondo
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RE: On track or not??

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1M HI in pool by end of 42 ... that's good. My target is >4M by 6/44, so you are easily on pace to meet that.

IIRC I am also now just over 1M in end of Aug 42. It is also the small "Babes". Even if I am really not overextending my industry/spendings etc. I wonder if this is maybe a bit too high.

Also what is so drastically different to stock in this scenario, OP ?
Watching HI without also watching supply isn't useful. So, you have 1M @ 8/42 ... but what is your supply pool look like?
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jamesjohns
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RE: On track or not??

Post by jamesjohns »

I always try to build up supply and fuel points in Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand and then push out as I advance. As a general rule, I never feel I have enough
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rustysi
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RE: On track or not??

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1M HI in pool by end of 42 ... that's good. My target is >4M by 6/44, so you are easily on pace to meet that.

IIRC I am also now just over 1M in end of Aug 42. It is also the small "Babes". Even if I am really not overextending my industry/spendings etc. I wonder if this is maybe a bit too high.

Also what is so drastically different to stock in this scenario, OP ?
Watching HI without also watching supply isn't useful. So, you have 1M @ 8/42 ... but what is your supply pool look like?

OK, so on a more complete note...

Scen1 v AI, 11Dec42.

I have ~700k HI and growing ~5-6k per day. Total HI production is about 15k/day. My armaments are at ~153k and mostly shut off. Vehicles are ~21k and all on. Supply is 3.4M and increasing. Fuel is ~4.9M, not much growth, but some. Oil is hovering at ~2M. Resources are at ~9.5M, and growing.

I know a lot of people here advocate shutting off what they feel is 'unnecessary' ship building, but I won't do that as I feel that's too ahistorical. That's not to say I won't if things get critical. That may be why my HI is a bit low, but it looks like it'll reach almost 3M+ if I can maintain my growth rate through mid-'44. Besides AFB's need all those ships to blow up when their time comes.[:D]

Any comments (well almost) are welcome.[;)]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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PaxMondo
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RE: On track or not??

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: rustysi


OK, so on a more complete note...

Scen1 v AI, 11Dec42.

I have ~700k HI and growing ~5-6k per day. Total HI production is about 15k/day. My armaments are at ~153k and mostly shut off. Vehicles are ~21k and all on. Supply is 3.4M and increasing. Fuel is ~4.9M, not much growth, but some. Oil is hovering at ~2M. Resources are at ~9.5M, and growing.

I know a lot of people here advocate shutting off what they feel is 'unnecessary' ship building, but I won't do that as I feel that's too ahistorical. That's not to say I won't if things get critical. That may be why my HI is a bit low, but it looks like it'll reach almost 3M+ if I can maintain my growth rate through mid-'44. Besides AFB's need all those ships to blow up when their time comes.[:D]

Any comments (well almost) are welcome.[;)]
OK, so 3.4M supply is just about what you start with. How many (total) AC and Engine factories repaired and building now?

Continuing NSY builds are fairly useful. MSY though, those will mostly just be VP's for the allies. Your game, your call.

So, depending upon how you are building and RnD in your aircraft, you look to be in pretty good shape heading into '43 with the economy.
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rustysi
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RE: On track or not??

Post by rustysi »

I try to keep A/C production to limits early on, mostly because I don't want too many early war models hanging around with nothing to do. For example, when I started to upgrade from the A6M2 I had single digits in reserve. Right now I produce ~20 A/C per day, of which about 4-5 are double engine models.

Although I have production pretty well in hand A/C R&D has just started coming clearer for me (including engines). I pretty much have a handle on it, but it needs some refinement. I've even made some errors where I started something and then redid it in my current game. So I think my expenditures in that department won't be too different in future games.
MSY though, those will mostly just be VP's for the allies. Your game, your call.

I know, I just can't help myself.

Thanks Pax, your opinion is well regarded by myself.[&o]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
Alpha77
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Alpha77 »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1M HI in pool by end of 42 ... that's good. My target is >4M by 6/44, so you are easily on pace to meet that.

IIRC I am also now just over 1M in end of Aug 42. It is also the small "Babes". Even if I am really not overextending my industry/spendings etc. I wonder if this is maybe a bit too high.

Also what is so drastically different to stock in this scenario, OP ?
Watching HI without also watching supply isn't useful. So, you have 1M @ 8/42 ... but what is your supply pool look like?

Good question, guess I need to watch Tracker a lot more to really answer and calculate all these things. I do not know how many supplies I have (needed to check).. there are always sometimes shortages in the outer IJ empire for me tho. The fact that ref do not produce supply in this mod makes it more difficult for Jave, Sumatra, Burma to keep supplied. Which I think is ok for realism. I feel however the HI and starting stocks in home island may be a bit to high. But I guess now as combat heats up and the US starts to get aggressive in my campaign game this may lead to shortages from 43 or so on. In the mainland supplies are no issue at the moment this is what I know. But you need a lot of shipping out also to build/repair oil/ref. But you all know that I guess [:)]
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Lowpe
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Lowpe »

There are some neat merchant builds in the mods...

There are also very valid reasons to build more merchant ships. Just saying.
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rustysi
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RE: On track or not??

Post by rustysi »

There are also very valid reasons to build more merchant ships. Just saying.

I agree. I find most of my merchie's to be quite busy. Also I can find uses for just about everything I get. Even those little 800k+ vessels that are horribly slow and seem useless. They make great replacements for the small ones you start with that'll convert to just about anything. I could always use a few more ACM's or AMc's. Let's not forget those that'll convert to tankers. Until recently these were in short supply for me, and I can still use a bunch more.

Anyway JMHO, YMMV.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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PaxMondo
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RE: On track or not??

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
There are also very valid reasons to build more merchant ships. Just saying.

I agree. I find most of my merchie's to be quite busy. Also I can find uses for just about everything I get. Even those little 800k+ vessels that are horribly slow and seem useless. They make great replacements for the small ones you start with that'll convert to just about anything. I could always use a few more ACM's or AMc's. Let's not forget those that'll convert to tankers. Until recently these were in short supply for me, and I can still use a bunch more.

Anyway JMHO, YMMV.
Agreed, there are and I do. But not at a 600 MSY rate ... I'm pretty selective on what I build. I find I have plenty of xAK, xAP, and even TK. What I am always short on after Apr42 are amphib ships with fast unload. So AMC's and AK's are a big deal.
Other than that, not too much. Only as I need for replacing losses and until late game I'm pretty careful with those. Late game, they all end up as allied VP's no matter what I do. [:D]
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Alpha77
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Alpha77 »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: rustysi
There are also very valid reasons to build more merchant ships. Just saying.

I agree. I find most of my merchie's to be quite busy. Also I can find uses for just about everything I get. Even those little 800k+ vessels that are horribly slow and seem useless. They make great replacements for the small ones you start with that'll convert to just about anything. I could always use a few more ACM's or AMc's. Let's not forget those that'll convert to tankers. Until recently these were in short supply for me, and I can still use a bunch more.

Anyway JMHO, YMMV.
Agreed, there are and I do. But not at a 600 MSY rate ... I'm pretty selective on what I build. I find I have plenty of xAK, xAP, and even TK. What I am always short on after Apr42 are amphib ships with fast unload. So AMC's and AK's are a big deal.
Other than that, not too much. Only as I need for replacing losses and until late game I'm pretty careful with those. Late game, they all end up as allied VP's no matter what I do. [:D]

There are Yusen ships can be converted to AK. They get more Flak but lose the fuel capacity. So a trade off - nothing comes for free. Except the Ansyu class convert the PB, this is a no brainer...14 speed and 2 bigger guns. Also decent range, all other PBs only coastal ships.
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PaxMondo
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RE: On track or not??

Post by PaxMondo »

All the Yusen's, but especially the Yusen S are really important. Always wish to have more along with the Kyushi. They are among the most fuel efficient cargo ships that the IJN has.

I park all the Ansyu by 6/42 except those few that I convert to AS. Fuel hogs and they can't handle USN SS after mid-43, so no real use for me.
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Alpha77
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Alpha77 »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


I park all the Ansyu by 6/42 except those few that I convert to AS. Fuel hogs and they can't handle USN SS after mid-43, so no real use for me.

looks like your war is pretty leisure time so to speak as you can afford such ships sitting around... [:D] They have bad DCs yes, they can still detract SS from the important targets, cant they ? Also shoot up smaller merchant ships sometimes themselves.
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PaxMondo
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RE: On track or not??

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

they can still detract SS from the important targets, cant they ?
Nope. They are too slow for the Yusen and Kyushu classes which are the only ones I use for "important" targets.

Resource convoys use other models and operate under ASW umbrellas with dedicated ASW TF hunter groups.

Far more efficient in terms of fuel use.

ORIGINAL: Alpha77Also shoot up smaller merchant ships sometimes themselves.

Sometimes does not offset the fuel use for me.
By parking the Ansyu, I gain 2 - 3 days per month steaming for my DD's which I find are far more efficient in shooting things up.

YMMV. [;)]


The IJN was anchored most of the war due to fuel shortages. Most players forget this and that the game models this.

Play like the allies, and you will run out of fuel.

Play like the IJ, and you won't be able to always field your best ships.

I'm very selective in what ships sail and how ... I always want to have fuel for the KB to react with. Just me though. [:D]
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Alpha77
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RE: On track or not??

Post by Alpha77 »

YMMV...ahh Yes MMMMMM....My....Motive....Matters.....

Your mileage may vvvvvv......vucked up ? LOL

Ok. I see and agree. However isnt there also someone called "the enemy" sometimes in your games ??
Who might interfere with all your plans ?
.....cause heard a rumour that there are evil guys on the other side that may attack you sometimes ?

Another but probably totally BS thing I heard, that you are supposed to be the bad guy and the others are the good ones [8|]
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rustysi
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RE: On track or not??

Post by rustysi »

The IJN was anchored most of the war due to fuel shortages. Most players forget this and that the game models this.

Play like the allies, and you will run out of fuel.

Play like the IJ, and you won't be able to always field your best ships.

I'm very selective in what ships sail and how ... I always want to have fuel for the KB to react with. Just me though.

Another big blunder of the Midway campaign for Japan was that all those ships sailing all over the Pacific used about a years' worth of fuel oil.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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rustysi
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RE: On track or not??

Post by rustysi »

OK, so 3.4M supply is just about what you start with.

BTW that's 3.4M up from 1.9M on 10Feb42. I don't know exactly the level to drive ones' economy early on, but I feel I pushed mine pretty far. I was really scrounging the empire for spare supply at that time in order to keep things going. It rebounded quickly from there though.

At any rate with all this talk about levels of this and that it seems no one has said much about fuel/oil levels other than you must have them. So what are good levels to carry/shoot for?
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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