The care and handling of panzergruppen

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dhhd
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The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by dhhd »

So I'm about 13-15 turns into my second attempt at playing the game, aka learning how the game works. Germans vs Soviet AI, easiest possible options on everything (yeah...), forgot to check Historical. 1.02g.

I'm doing better than my previous attempt, by and large - but I'm getting stuck a bit past Orsha. The major problem appears to be that the AGC panzergruppen are low on runners and thus on combat strength. I've been alternating refitting them whenever I move an FSB up. Probably the issue is that I have been taking heavier tank losses than I should - which of course resting and refitting won't help much. I've been keeping them on Blitzkrieg, with Command Focus and whatever card it is that gives an offensive bonus, and air support.

I probably screwed up early on: I haven't been able to create big pockets (usually half a dozen Soviet divisions at most), for instance. But beyond getting better at the game, any tips/tricks people have found helpful to keep their PGs running as well as possible?

Thoughts/questions:

1. Can't recall off the top of my head if Historical changes difficulty, but if it doesn't, have people experienced it as making the game easier or harder?
2. How should I be handling the pz/mot/inf combination? Should I be handling pz divs and mot divs especially differently? I've been trying to use both at the same time, while the inf divs hold flanks and such.
3. What's the best way to build big pockets? I know I've seen people say this game allows for smaller pockets than WitE - with which I am not familiar.
4. What's the best way to refit them? Keep them in the line, keep them in the line but stiffen them with units from armies, pull them out?
5. How reckless should I be with fast-moving stuff early in the game? I've generally tried to stack 2-3 divs per hex, and not push them too far between Soviet formations.
James Ward
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by James Ward »

I'm not the greatest player but what I've found is if you can resist the urge to attack all the time with your panzers they retain their punch much longer. If you can use them as they were supposed to be used, for exploitation as opposed to general assault, you have a better chance of pocketing more units. Send them through to encircle units and use your infantry to eliminate the units in the pocket. Panzers are a little brittle though. They can be destroyed if put in the wrong place. I try to keep a mech division stacked with them.

Also don't try to make the pocket to big, if you can isolate 6-8 units with you infantry close or maybe isolate 20 but your infantry is 2 turns away, go for the smaller pocket. Infantry is what you should use to actually reduce the pocket not your armour so they have to keep up. It is hard to hold a pocket for 2-3 turns.
dhhd
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by dhhd »

What I've been trying to do is use the pz+mot divs, plus inf divs when I can attack without moving too much, to attack weak enemy hexes, force them to retreat, advance, attack again, etc to try and work around larger enemy concentrations. Actual destruction of the pockets is left to the PG's inf divs, or inf divs from the armies.

I was probably a bit sloppy with using them as a battering ram at the beginning, though. I also need to pay more attention to # of tanks instead of just % of runners. In the centre I seem to be stuck with half-strength pz divs, mot divs that have seen better days, and inf divs that are mostly doing fine.
James Ward
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by James Ward »

Me too. I think the more you can attack with the foot soldiers the better off you are.I just can't seem to resist making that last attack with my panzers rather than wait till next turn after the grunts catch up. One thing I've noticed is if you let your tanks sit without moving for a turn they seem to have extra AP's the next turn.
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battlevonwar
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by battlevonwar »

Against Multiplayer it's hard to play it safe and to gain ground. I find...the AI is more likely to allow a pocket to happen without counterattack or trapping.

dhhd
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by dhhd »

Having looked it over again, the vast majority of my understrength pz divs is due to tank losses. 4PG is actually in OK shape, and 1PG isn't completely shot, but 2 and 3PG have been reduced to motorized units with a few tanks around for the sentimental value.

Besides paying better attention to the lost/broken down number in the PG tab, anyone got any basic rules to limit armour losses?
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willgamer
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by willgamer »

ORIGINAL: James Ward
One thing I've noticed is if you let your tanks sit without moving for a turn they seem to have extra AP's the next turn.

That's due to the way Readiness works; it affects the amount of APs.

If a unit runs low on supply, or takes advantage of high APs to do multiple moves/attacks on a turn, its Readiness will fall too low to recover in one turn.

Readiness can only improve a maximum of 40 points/turn.

ref: Manual p. 114.
[:)]
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dhhd
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RE: The care and handling of panzergruppen

Post by dhhd »

By the time I finished my first campaign as the Germans, I had lost something like 2,500+ tanks by the end of it. Maybe a bit higher, as I checked that probably a few turns before it ended. However, Wikipedia gives German tank losses of 2,400+ for the entirety of Operation Barbarossa, so I didn't do that much worse than historically.
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