A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era

[Alpha77]

British vs. French Shipbuilding
The Baden Analysis

By Peter Lienau and Stuart Slade
Updated 11 February 2000

Here:


http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-057.htm

[Alfred]

That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
 
Alfred

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.

Alfred

What does he say about Ian Toll's Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.

Alfred

What does he say about Ian Toll's Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.

What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.

Alfred

What does he say about Ian Toll's Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.

What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]

We have something called Missouri yellow pine. You cannot drive nails through it without drilling holes first.
It is nonetheless highly prized by carpenters because it's like iron. When I was younger and renovating stuff, I had to deal with Missouri yellow pine framing. I had Yankee screwdrivers and drill bits to use with them. Those Yankee screwdrivers were like having battery powered screwdrivers except they were powered by you.
You cannot drill holes in MO yellow pine with a Yankee and I doubt you would do well with an augur. In old houses here, generally brick ones, the framing is Missouri yellow pine. I don't care if it's Paul Bunyan with the blue ox backing him up. If you try driving a nail, doesn't matter if it's a four penny or a sixteen penny, if you try to hammer that through you will have a bent piece of steel wire.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.

Alfred

What does he say about Ian Toll's Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.

What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]

I'm getting old. Forgot that detail somehow.

[Alpha77]

Does someone read the article ? It comments mainly on what they call "myth" of better French ships in the 1800s and also a bit of better German ships in WW1..

[fcharton]

Read it. It is as you say, about French ship design being a myth. Some of the arguments are probably valid, but it sounds like a diatribe, and this weakens his point. Also, the fact that he cannot even write correctly the one French name he mentions (droits de l'homme) makes one wonder about the author's ability to read from French sources (especially the various plans and devis, which document the design, construction and performance at sea, and should be, much more than letters from sailors from prize crews, the primary sources for such a comparison).

As Alfred said, Symon's opinion on this would be very interesting.

Francois

[Hermit]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.

Alfred

What does he say about Ian Toll's Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.

What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]

They didn't call USS Constitution "Old Ironsides" without reason.