The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo)

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:50 pm

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Stalino

...

After my moves, the southern defence of Stalino is near from collapsing. I have still 3 weeks to take the city

...

good tense stuff, nice to see a German player prepared to fight it out on the front lines.

I also think that if a German player wants to do real damage in 1942 (especially to industry and manpower) then they need to hold as far east in the winter as they can?

it's a really interesting game. My progress were beyond my expectations in front of Moscow but I thought that Stalino would have fallen before end january. Bobo did a great job in this area.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:56 pm

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

good tense stuff, nice to see a German player prepared to fight it out on the front lines.

The most important thing for me is that this time the Blizzard was fun.

And fights were intense as shown below by the evolution of the OOB. My rifle squads were unable to grow and my AFV were burnt. German arty is also very low. For example in my previous games, at this stage of the war, the germans were between 33K and 36K

beekeeper · Post by **beekeeper** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:15 pm

Very intresting game for me ^.^
i'll be reading!

PS. i think use PZd for def it big mistake ,better to give the territory, it's not worth it

loki100 · Post by **loki100** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:40 am

ORIGINAL: beekeeper

Very intresting game for me ^.^
i'll be reading!

PS. i think use PZd for def it big mistake ,better to give the territory, it's not worth it

I'm not sure, think its a trade off. If you fall back too far to the west then it doesn't matter how good your 1942 offensive is. The Soviets will have plenty of space to trade off and still be able to start their 1943 offensives relatively far to the west.

I think the second half of the game is all about when the Soviets reach/cross two major river lines. So you need to have driven them to the east of the Don so that becomes the first point of contest in the winter of 42/43 and then the Dneipr is the main focus in the winter of 43/44. Do that and you have a good chance of running the clock down in the end game.

Different games have very different dynamics but in my current game vigabrand had an excellent 1942, reduced my net OOB by 1m and took 2m prisoners. But because he started too far to the west (I think), its going to be a challenge to find some means to buy time to hold me back in the later years.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:29 pm

Turn 35, 12th february 1942

Momentum is lost almost everywhere...

Smolensk

Time to pay the bill [:(]

Stalino

I want this city! It would give an anchor for the next spring.

Before my moves

And after... romanians are routed but there is still a corridor to Stalino

loki100 · Post by **loki100** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:52 am

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Stalino

I want this city! It would give an anchor for the next spring.

Before my moves

are you sure about this, realise the latest patch has changed 1942 quite a bit but the Germans are still very dangerous and mobile?

I can't imagine that someone as competent as b21bobo won't just outflank it with a relatively simple attack down to the Sea of Azov?

Think you are right to take it now if you can, he's fighting for it so its a chance to inflict losses and generate Guards but I'd regard it as no more important for Spring-Summer 1942 than any other hex along the current frontline

sillyflower · Post by **sillyflower** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:20 am

Don't forget the metagame. Stalino has become a talisman for both sides and is now important for player morale.

Good game.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:35 am

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Stalino

I want this city! It would give an anchor for the next spring.

Before my moves

are you sure about this, realise the latest patch has changed 1942 quite a bit but the Germans are still very dangerous and mobile?

I can't imagine that someone as competent as b21bobo won't just outflank it with a relatively simple attack down to the Sea of Azov?

Think you are right to take it now if you can, he's fighting for it so its a chance to inflict losses and generate Guards but I'd regard it as no more important for Spring-Summer 1942 than any other hex along the current frontline

Thanks to Beekeeper I'm now well aware that germans are dangerous in 1942![:(]

Even if I take the city, I won't be able to hold it during the whole spring/summer 1942 but these 3 hexes, added to the form of the front would mean an easier defence of this area. The fall of Rostov would be delayed, maybe the city could be held.

As you noticed the key in 1942 for the russian player is to keep the Don / Oka line clear.

Stalino will not be my "russian Stalingrad" but I have rationnal reasons to take it.

And above all, it's fun to have such an aim and fight for it! [:D]

On the other side the second key of 1942 will be the ability of germans to recover firepower after having overused their Pzd during blizzard. Spring will tell us if Bobo was right.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:38 am

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Don't forget the metagame. Stalino has become a talisman for both sides and is now important for payer morale.

Good game.

Thanks my dear English invader [;)]

Your opinion is fully true in 1941. As loki, I think 1942 for the russians is more about the Don/Oka line

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:11 am

Turn 35, 12th february 1942

An overall view of the front. Some areas are hidden for obvious reasons as we are only 5 turns ahead the AAR...

Somme comments:
- satisfied with my winter campaign (buffer created in front of Moscow, 4 guards armies, more than 50 guards infs)
- German Pzd has been spread in 4 hot spots to prevent a major fall back. They suffered losses but did well in the north while destroying 2 Cav Corps.
- I could have easily advanced more West of Kharkov but didn't want to create a "big bulge"
- I've already begun to set on refit on rail in the back several armies
- On my last game I was really surprised with the strength of german's offensive in march 1942. I will be more careful this time

We shall see how fast and high initiative will go back to the german side...

loki100 · Post by **loki100** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:18 am

you look to be in good shape, in my game with vigabrand at this stage I had 219 HI and 345 arms and have not had any supply problems - even able to run all my production (incl fort digging) at 100%. So your 222 - 335 is a good basis (actually better balanced than me as I have more arms pts production centres than I can really use).

fascinating to look at the pattern of losses and how it reflects bobo's decision to fight the winter.

You have 3.62m lost (incl 1.3m prisoners), I had the same total (3.62m) but with 2m prisoners - I think that I was too willing to delay vigabrand in 1941 by offering up sacrificial stay behind garrisons etc.

As you know its all about minimising how far you now get pushed east and how much of your army you can keep intact - looks like its going to be a fun game

sillyflower · Post by **sillyflower** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:48 am

ORIGINAL: STEF78

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Don't forget the metagame. Stalino has become a talisman for both sides and is now important for payer morale.

Good game.
Thanks my dear English invader [;)]

Your opinion is fully true in 1941. As loki, I think 1942 for the russians is more about the Don/Oka line

Invader???? [:-] I come to free you, though I will be rightly be told off if I explain why on this forum [:D]. Suffice to say that I now have my secret lair, so the next thing on my shopping list is a white cat.

I agree with you about the terrain, but I was thinking purely of the psychological effect of you taking Stalino this winter, or not. I would not for one moment think you would expect or even try to hold it in '42.

It will be very hard for Bobo now given the strength of your economy and your ever-growing army.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:44 pm

ORIGINAL: loki100
As you know its all about minimising how far you now get pushed east and how much of your army you can keep intact - looks like its going to be a fun game

I will do my best! And it's fun

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:45 pm

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
It will be very hard for Bobo now given the strength of your economy and your ever-growing army.

In my previous game I was also in very good shape at the end of february 1942, game is clearly not over...

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:52 pm

Turn 36, 19th february 1942

Great surprise at the opening of the turn: MUD in february on the major part of the front!!!!

Stalino is saved as the northern part of the corridor is now unbreachable... some attacks in the southern part of the city for fun

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:24 pm

Turn 37, 26th february 1942

Last turn of blizzard, time to prepare march german offensive. I need to be cautious.

First, an overall view of the front with the red arrows showing my progress during blizzard. Stavka is pretty satisfied with his winter campaign. 20th and 32nd armies are promoted to guards armies!

Focus in the South, the brave russian recons have identified a strong german Pzg

We give up the territory between Stalino and Azov sea and the 47th army is sent in the rear to create a strong second line of defence

loki100 · Post by **loki100** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:17 am

ORIGINAL: STEF78

...

Last turn of blizzard, time to prepare march german offensive. I need to be cautious.

First, an overall view of the front with the red arrows showing my progress during blizzard. Stavka is pretty satisfied with his winter campaign. 20th and 32nd armies are promoted to guards armies!

..

I'm jealous about your Gds Armies, June 1943 and I still have none. Glad you pulled out of that trap to the south of Stalino. I'm now very cautious about trying to defend anywhere along the Sea of Azov in 1942 as its just too easy to pocket.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: STEF78
...

Stavka is pretty satisfied with his winter campaign. 20th and 32nd armies are promoted to guards armies!

..

I'm jealous about your Gds Armies, June 1943 and I still have none.

It's not all about my skill...

We are playing mild blizzard but +1 soviet bonus. It allows the russian player to significantly increase the win loss ratio

sillyflower · Post by **sillyflower** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:40 pm

ORIGINAL: STEF78

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
It will be very hard for Bobo now given the strength of your economy and your ever-growing army.
In my previous game I was also in very good shape at the end of february 1942, game is clearly not over...

Very true - but you are in a good position to win if you do not make major mistakes.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:13 pm

Turn 38, 5th march 1942

This time blizzard is over and german army is back at full strength!

Bobo attacks on 4 spots: in front of Moscow, near Bryansk, near Sumy and South of Stalino. A guard cav corps and an Inf Div are isolated. I could rescue them while moving the 9 Cv german inf but it would increase the number of units threatened by an encirclement. I decide to abandon them at their fate... sad but necessary.