Replacement for General MacArthur?

[jakla1027]

I'm just wondering a hypothetical question. Who would have replaced General MacArthur in 1942 in the southwest Pacific Command? Assuming MacArthur was killed, wounded, or just relieved of command in March 1942 following the philippines evacuation. Thus in your opinions would have replaced him in command of the South West Pacific theater? Please don't use retrospect, just put yourself in that moment in time and look at who at that time (March 1942) would have been eligible to take command of that theater. (ie no Eisenhower)

My personal opinion? I believe that they might have combined the southwest Pacific and south Pacific theaters into one command, and under Roosevelt's personal insistence, recalled & appointed Admiral Leahy in command.

So who do you guys think would have replaced General MacArthur?

[Yaab]

There is only one substitute for MacArthur, namely general John "Canoerebel" Doe. Unfortunately, the Project Manhattan failed to deliver the general to the theatre of operations.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

I'm just wondering a hypothetical question. Who would have replaced General MacArthur in 1942 in the southwest
Pacific Command? Assuming MacArthur was killed, wounded, or just relieved of command in March 1942 following
the philippines evacuation. Thus in your opinions would have replaced him in command of the South West Pacific
theater? Please don't use retrospect, just put yourself in that moment in time and look at who at that time
(March 1942) would have been eligible to take command of that theater. (ie no Eisenhower)

Good question. That said, Eisenhower was only a colonel at the time so I don't suppose he was selectable. Besides,
he did a terrific job in the War Plans Dept. together with Brig.Gen Gerow. General Brett was involved in Australia
from the beginning - arrived with the Pensacola convoy, if I remember correctly - he could be a natural.

ORIGINAL: jakla1027My personal opinion? I believe that they might have combined the southwest Pacific and
south Pacific theaters into one command, and under Roosevelt's personal insistence, recalled & appointed Admiral
Leahy in command.

That would be a very large command. Besides, the Navy was in a rather defensive mode at the time so I'm afraid that
wouldn't have been a good choice for Australia. If a Navy man it should be (USAFFE, that is) I would have chosen
Admiral Hart. He had the seniority, too.

Fred

[anarchyintheuk]

Brett sounds right. Don't know if Marshall would have liked entrusting a theatre command to an 'air' guy tho.

Depending on how early in '42 it was, it might have been Stilwell.

[Alfred]

No way the Australians would have entrusted their forces in early 1942 to a naval command whose focus was no where near Australia.  Considering that until well into 1943 the great bulk of forces involved in the area were Australian, the question of combining SWPac and SoPac is quite moot.
 
Alfred

[crsutton]

Stillwell. He was slated for high command and was one of Marshall's favorites. He did not want China but took it as a favor to Marshall-even though both suspected it would be a career killer.

[jakla1027]

Yeah I'd agree with Admiral Hart, however my only concern would be the repercussions of his "questionable" service in the Philippines after Dec 8th. He was almost thrown into the same bag as Admiral Kimmel and General Short. (Which is BS in my opinion) Heart did a great job with what he had, so I could see him getting the job.

I think Stillwell would be a great choice! He probably would have been able to work well with the Australians, easier to work with them than the Chinese were to work with. But this begs the question, who would have gone to China in Stillwell's place? Lol

Brett I don't think would have keep the job. He was just a seat warmer to begin with. To many objections from both Marshall and King to have him stay in command.

Anybody else think Leahy? I could see him getting the job based heavily on Roosevelt's urging. (Roosevelt's urging is what got Admiral Ghormley the South Pacific Command after all) However, his age and the fact he was retired and serving as ambassador to Vichy France could be prime factors of not getting good the job.

Plus I agree now, I doubt they would have combined the South West and South Pacific commands. If they didn't combined them for McArthur, they probably wouldn't have combined them for anyone else.

[packerpete]

I read somewhere that ADM Hart had health problems and that was why he never got another combat command.

[btd64]

Hart was smart enough to take the initiative when he had to and he took orders from above, like it or not. Other than him, Maybe Halsey. He had experience with OZ and the SW Pac area....GP

[BBfanboy]

Halsey took over SOPAC when Ghormley proved to be too passive, and he proved to be the right man for the job - willing to risk his last assets to support the Marines on Guadalcanal. He is the one that decided to fly off Enterprise's air group to Henderson field when she was damaged at Santa Cruz. He was the one that ordered Scott/Callahan to take on Japanese BBs in the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, and then stripped his carrier of her BB escort to set up the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. That took guts.

But Halsey chafed at being kept in a Command HQ when he wanted to be at sea. I'm not sure if SOPAC HQ was folded into Pacific Ocean Areas which released Halsey or if they just put him in charge of TF 58 and put someone else in SOPAC HQ.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: packerpete

I read somewhere that ADM Hart had health problems and that was why he never got another combat command.

I believe that was more like an excuse to get him out of the ABDA confusion and its British and Dutch hegemony.
But, he was 62, was he not?

Earlier I criticized Hart for being too passive regarding the Navy's role in the lack of support to the Philippines
(except with submarines) but has since understood this wasn't really his decision, but the US leadership at home.
It was all a part of the ABDA game and the British craving for everything allied to be used for the support of
Singapore/Malaya.

Thinking about it, it was almost immoral the way the US leadership staked everything on hiring in civilian ships
to supply the Philippines, while unwilling to use any naval resources to secure these because it was too risky.

Fred

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Halsey took over SOPAC when Ghormley proved to be too passive, and he proved to be the right man for the job - willing to risk his last assets to support the Marines on Guadalcanal. He is the one that decided to fly off Enterprise's air group to Henderson field when she was damaged at Santa Cruz. He was the one that ordered Scott/Callahan to take on Japanese BBs in the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, and then stripped his carrier of her BB escort to set up the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. That took guts.

But Halsey chafed at being kept in a Command HQ when he wanted to be at sea. I'm not sure if SOPAC HQ was folded into Pacific Ocean Areas which released Halsey or if they just put him in charge of TF 58 and put someone else in SOPAC HQ.

The command was active until the end of the war (from Wikipedia):

Commanders, South Pacific Area

Vice Admiral Robert L. Ghormley (19 June–18 October 1942)
Vice Adm./Adm. William Halsey, Jr. (18 October 1942–15 June 1944)
Vice Adm. John H. Newton (15 June 1944–13 March 1945)
Vice Admiral William L. Calhoun (13 March–2 September 1945)

[Ian R]

According to David Horner in High Command (page 180), Lt Gen Brett (promoted to lieutenant general on 7 January 1942) was OC US Army forces Australia in February. He, and the Australian & New Zealand general staffs jointly recommended the appointment of a single supreme commander - who should be an American - of the "ANZAC area". That recommendation was accepted by the war cabinets in Oz & NZ on or shortly after 26 February, and transmitted to Washington (and London) on 3 March 1942. The Australian government added to the recommendation that it would welcome Brett's appointment as supreme commander.

McArthur arrived in Melbourne on 21 March, and was senior to Brett. Brett had also been identified too closely with the conservative side of Australian politics, and the (Labor) PM Curtin had no hesitation in conveying to Washington that MacArthur was preferred.

The answer to your query is probably Brett initially, perhaps as acting commander, but as a recently minted 3-star, an an airman, you would expect that someone else would be appointed by mid-year. Stillwell (although then only just promoted to a 3-star) was a possibility - initially selected by Marshall to plan the Torch landings, some would say Roosevelt sent him to the CBI to get him out of the way due to his well known Republican views. The South West Pacific was probably far enough for that. However, he arrived in India on 25 February 42, before the 26 February recommendation referred to above. CBI was not a true theatre command though; Marshall might have been able to move him to SWPAC mid year, if McArthur had been sent into retirement.

[jakla1027]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

According to David Horner in High Command (page 180), Lt Gen Brett (promoted to lieutenant general on 7 January 1942) was OC US Army forces Australia in February. He, and the Australian & New Zealand general staffs jointly recommended the appointment of a single supreme commander - who should be an American - of the "ANZAC area". That recommendation was accepted by the war cabinets in Oz & NZ on or shortly after 26 February, and transmitted to Washington (and London) on 3 March 1942. The Australian government added to the recommendation that it would welcome Brett's appointment as supreme commander.

McArthur arrived in Melbourne on 21 March, and was senior to Brett. Brett had also been identified too closely with the conservative side of Australian politics, and the (Labor) PM Curtin had no hesitation in conveying to Washington that MacArthur was preferred.

The answer to your query is probably Brett initially, perhaps as acting commander, but as a recently minted 3-star, an an airman, you would expect that someone else would be appointed by mid-year. Stillwell (although then only just promoted to a 3-star) was a possibility - initially selected by Marshall to plan the Torch landings, some would say Roosevelt sent him to the CBI to get him out of the way due to his well known Republican views. The South West Pacific was probably far enough for that. However, he arrived in India on 25 February 42, before the 26 February recommendation referred to above. CBI was not a true theatre command though; Marshall might have been able to move him to SWPAC mid year, if McArthur had been sent into retirement.

Very good info! thanks for sharing[&o]

In terms of rank, what would you guys think about Wilson Brown getting the job? Yes he's a Navy man, but did lead a CV task force in OZ waters in early 1942. He was senior to Nimitz in rank I believe at the time (Feb. 1942). I just don't know if he would have got the backing of the Army leaders in Oz and Washington. Also was of equivalent rank to McArthur.

While looking at the game Editor at eligible leaders of SWPAC in May 1942 a U.S. Army Major General, Charles F. Thompson appears. Does anyone have any info on this guy. I've been looking online and cant find much, think he was a grad of the 1904 West point class....if its the same guy. Other than that I can't find any info on him.

[Ian R]

Straight from the Arlington website:

PRESIDENT AT RITE FOR FORMER CHIEF
Attends Arlington Funeral of Major General C. F. Thompson, Who Led 3rd Division

WASHINGTON, June 18, 1954 – President Eisenhower attended a funeral service at Arlington National Cemetery today for one of his former commanding officers, Major General Charles F. Thompson, who died Tuesday at the age of 71.

The President was accompanied by Mrs. Eisenhower at the graveside ceremony.

General Eisenhower served as Chief of Staff under General Thompson when the latter commanded the Army’s Third Division at Fort Lewis, Washington, in 1940-41. The division moved in 1941 to Couth Carolina for maneuvers that first brought the President to prominence. H was a Lieutenant Colonel at that time.

At today’s service, General and Mrs. Eisenhower expressed their sympathy to General Thompson’s widow.

General Thompson, a native of North Dakota, was graduated from West Point in 1904. During World War I he served with the First Army Intelligence Unit and later in the same capacity with the Second Army.

In 1921 he was Chief of Press Relations for Military Intelligence. He was commanding general of the Military District of Washington in 1944-45, and then retired from the Army. He had made his home in Washington.

One of General Thompson’s appointments during World War I was adjutant of the Eighty-Second Division. He participated in the St. Mihiel offensive. He won the Distinguished Service Medal and the Medal of the French Legion of Honor.

On August 11, 1941, General Thompson was assigned to command of the First Army Corps at Columbia, South Carolina. In the subsequent maneuvers he commanded that Corps in exercised against the Second Corps. The maneuvers lasted until the end of November.

Thompson was also commander US Forces Fiji from 10/42 to 1944. It might be added that he, as a corps commander, was involved in the mass purging of peace-time National Guard officers that followed the 1941 maneuvers.

I don't think he was under consideration for any sort of active command; perhaps he himself was also purged in the efficiency reviews after the maneuvers.

I think the minimalist change is to put Brett in charge of CBI, and Stillwell at SWPAC. Another possibility is Walter Krueger.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Halsey took over SOPAC when Ghormley proved to be too passive, and he proved to be the right man for the job - willing to risk his last assets to support the Marines on Guadalcanal. He is the one that decided to fly off Enterprise's air group to Henderson field when she was damaged at Santa Cruz. He was the one that ordered Scott/Callahan to take on Japanese BBs in the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, and then stripped his carrier of her BB escort to set up the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. That took guts.

But Halsey chafed at being kept in a Command HQ when he wanted to be at sea. I'm not sure if SOPAC HQ was folded into Pacific Ocean Areas which released Halsey or if they just put him in charge of TF 58 and put someone else in SOPAC HQ.

The command was active until the end of the war (from Wikipedia):

Commanders, South Pacific Area

Vice Admiral Robert L. Ghormley (19 June–18 October 1942)
Vice Adm./Adm. William Halsey, Jr. (18 October 1942–15 June 1944)
Vice Adm. John H. Newton (15 June 1944–13 March 1945)
Vice Admiral William L. Calhoun (13 March–2 September 1945)

Well so much for my misconception that SOPAC was folded after the Guadalcanal Campaign! I just don't recall hearing anything about the HQ after 1942. I thought Halsey was involved in the strike on Truk? Will have to do some reading on that.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

ORIGINAL: Ian R

According to David Horner in High Command (page 180), Lt Gen Brett (promoted to lieutenant general on 7 January 1942) was OC US Army forces Australia in February. He, and the Australian & New Zealand general staffs jointly recommended the appointment of a single supreme commander - who should be an American - of the "ANZAC area". That recommendation was accepted by the war cabinets in Oz & NZ on or shortly after 26 February, and transmitted to Washington (and London) on 3 March 1942. The Australian government added to the recommendation that it would welcome Brett's appointment as supreme commander.

McArthur arrived in Melbourne on 21 March, and was senior to Brett. Brett had also been identified too closely with the conservative side of Australian politics, and the (Labor) PM Curtin had no hesitation in conveying to Washington that MacArthur was preferred.

The answer to your query is probably Brett initially, perhaps as acting commander, but as a recently minted 3-star, an an airman, you would expect that someone else would be appointed by mid-year. Stillwell (although then only just promoted to a 3-star) was a possibility - initially selected by Marshall to plan the Torch landings, some would say Roosevelt sent him to the CBI to get him out of the way due to his well known Republican views. The South West Pacific was probably far enough for that. However, he arrived in India on 25 February 42, before the 26 February recommendation referred to above. CBI was not a true theatre command though; Marshall might have been able to move him to SWPAC mid year, if McArthur had been sent into retirement.

Very good info! thanks for sharing[&o]

In terms of rank, what would you guys think about Wilson Brown getting the job? Yes he's a Navy man, but did lead a CV task force in OZ waters in early 1942. He was senior to Nimitz in rank I believe at the time (Feb. 1942). I just don't know if he would have got the backing of the Army leaders in Oz and Washington. Also was of equivalent rank to McArthur.

While looking at the game Editor at eligible leaders of SWPAC in May 1942 a U.S. Army Major General, Charles F. Thompson appears. Does anyone have any info on this guy. I've been looking online and cant find much, think he was a grad of the 1904 West point class....if its the same guy. Other than that I can't find any info on him.

No, Marshall and King had a solid but delicate relationship. No way Marshall would have allowed a navy man to be in charge of that theater and no way Kind would have pushed for it.

[Major Shane]

I would nominate then LTG Walter Krueger. Kruger was promoted to LTG in May 41. He commanded 3rd US Army in the Louisiana Maneuvers. He had been a Division G3 and Chief of Staff in WW I. He was a graduate of the Naval War College. His ego was the opposite of Mac's and I think his resume would have impressed the Aussies.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: m_shane_perkins

I would nominate then LTG Walter Krueger. Kruger was promoted to LTG in May 41. He commanded 3rd US Army in the Louisiana Maneuvers. He had been a Division G3 and Chief of Staff in WW I. He was a graduate of the Naval War College. His ego was the opposite of Mac's and I think his resume would have impressed the Aussies.

I'm not sure a resumee would have done anything to impress the Aussies....[;)].. MacArthur, on the other hand,
impressed the Aussies with his stubborn resistance against the Japanese in the Philippines, his political pondus
and his clear attitude that his "heart" was in the South-West (Asiatic) Pacific. If he had not been available, which
is the question here, no one I know of could have replaced him in his ability of generating resources for "his"
command.

I'm not sure if it would have made much difference, though, now that we know that the Japanese had no intentions of
actually invading Australia. But, I'm pretty sure the balance of the US involvement would have moved eastwards.

Fred

[Major Shane]

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: m_shane_perkins

I would nominate then LTG Walter Krueger. Kruger was promoted to LTG in May 41. He commanded 3rd US Army in the Louisiana Maneuvers. He had been a Division G3 and Chief of Staff in WW I. He was a graduate of the Naval War College. His ego was the opposite of Mac's and I think his resume would have impressed the Aussies.

I'm not sure a resumee would have done anything to impress the Aussies....[;)].. MacArthur, on the other hand,
impressed the Aussies with his stubborn resistance against the Japanese in the Philippines, his political pondus
and his clear attitude that his "heart" was in the South-West (Asiatic) Pacific. If he had not been available, which
is the question here, no one I know of could have replaced him in his ability of generating resources for "his"
command.

I'm not sure if it would have made much difference, though, now that we know that the Japanese had no intentions of
actually invading Australia. But, I'm pretty sure the balance of the US involvement would have moved eastwards.

Fred

Fred, you make some great points. I was just saying that of the available American generals in early '42 that Krueger would have made an ideal choice. He was clearly qualified for high level command. He didn't have the political problems that others had. His attendance at the Naval War College would opened doors between the Army and Navy. He had served in the Philippines as a junior officer, so I think his heart would have been there too.


This type of discussion is one of the things that makes this forum great.