Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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No idea
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Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by No idea »

If I understand how evacuation works the more points you evacuate (no matter they are armaments or equipment ones) the less damage the factory will have. So, it is better to evacuate the 15 armaments points of Tula in a single time than evacuating one point per turn. Am I right?

On top of that, you can evacuate factories where you like so, why evacuating them to Stalingrad (to say one place) when they can sit forever safely on the Urals?
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by cpt flam »

you are right for the first part
evacuating all, they will have 50% damage
otherwise moving 1 of 20 it will be 99%
you can évacuate only on the map (no ffmap move possible)
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Denniss »

Haven't done this lately but increasing damage should only apply to vehicle/aircraft factories. Arm/HI/truck facs may be relocated in parts without additional penalties as they do not grow while vehicle/aircraft rebuild after repairing damage.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by No idea »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Haven't done this lately but increasing damage should only apply to vehicle/aircraft factories. Arm/HI/truck facs may be relocated in parts without additional penalties as they do not grow while vehicle/aircraft rebuild after repairing damage.

I will check in my current SU game, but I would swear I have seen Armament or HI points, in the cities were they went, and they had different amounts of damage. I guess that is because I didnt evacuate the same amount of Arm or HI points in all cases (although it might also be because I have evacuated them at different times, so some have started repairing themselves before others).

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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by No idea »

ORIGINAL: cpt flam

you can évacuate only on the map (no ffmap move possible)

I didnt mean Offmap, just to very far, on map, cities, like the ones at the Urals feet.

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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Mehring »

There's no question, all factories suffer damage according to the % you evacuate, and always have done, so always evac as much as you can at a time in one lump.

Another thing to look out for is the manpower and rail capacity of the new location. I've no idea what proportion of which it takes, but a good location, 20 MP and 3 Rail will definitely do this, will repair 3 % per turn. A bad location will repair just 1%.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by timmyab »

ORIGINAL: Mehring
Another thing to look out for is the manpower and rail capacity of the new location. I've no idea what proportion of which it takes, but a good location, 20 MP and 3 Rail will definitely do this, will repair 3 % per turn. A bad location will repair just 1%.
Are you certain? As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to make a difference. HI will repair at 2% per turn and everything else will repair at 3% no matter the location.
Maybe you play under a previous patch?

Question for Soviet forum gurus.
Does anyone use the production level adjustment feature and if so how do you judge what levels to set for different categories?

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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Mehring »

ORIGINAL: timmyab
ORIGINAL: Mehring
Another thing to look out for is the manpower and rail capacity of the new location. I've no idea what proportion of which it takes, but a good location, 20 MP and 3 Rail will definitely do this, will repair 3 % per turn. A bad location will repair just 1%.
Are you certain? As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to make a difference. HI will repair at 2% per turn and everything else will repair at 3% no matter the location.
Maybe you play under a previous patch?
...or maybe I learned that in a previous version. I'll check, stuff used to repair slower in low manpower/rail locations.

I also noticed that a lot of factories that used to finish production now change product but continue. Just got some armored car factories trapped in Leningrad as I didn't notice in time, MiGs also upgrade.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: Mehring


I also noticed that a lot of factories that used to finish production now change product but continue. Just got some armored car factories trapped in Leningrad as I didn't notice in time.

If you had been reading my AAR, you would have realised this earlier because Brian G made the same error.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by No idea »

What does BA 10 factory upgrades to? I didnt move it because I thought by Dec 1941 it would be useless.

By the way, Mehring I think all factories repair damage at the same rate, no matter where you put them. A different thing is factories (or anything else) captured by germans. That wont start repairing until the city/town/urban area gets its rail repaired.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: timmyab

...
Does anyone use the production level adjustment feature and if so how do you judge what levels to set for different categories?


I've been setting air production at about 80% till mid/late 1942. That can divert quite a bit of supply to more useful places, either generating other industrial production or to supply the army. My logic is that given the inbalance in the air war up to then, there is little you can produce that really matters. Also still do older tricks like moving the on-map IL-4 factory to reduce output etc.

From some testing, don't lower the 'element production' (forget the exact wording) line, this seems to be critical to converting arms pts etc into squads and guns.

See no sense in changing the fortification level by city (its too small a number to waste admin pts on) but in case of need, I'd drop the digging rate for combat units. So far I've not really played anyone since this option was available where managing supply allocation is critical. In my old game vs SigUP, I would simply have driven production down to the point where I could at least supply the on-map army.

So to me, apart from squeezing out air production, the rest is very situational.

as to the upgrade factories, I'll add myself to the list of people who got caught out over the armoured car production in Leningrad, but from some testing have worked out how to manage the Mig3-Il-2 conversion with minimal disruption and loss of rail capacity
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by timmyab »

Thanks for the tips Loki, I'll give them a try.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Denniss »

BA-10 facs do not upgrade - it just has a unit upgrade path but no factory upgrade path.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by No idea »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

BA-10 facs do not upgrade - it just has a unit upgrade path but no factory upgrade path.

But, if I evacuate the BA 10 factory in Leningrad, will I get a new factory (of BA 64, the armoured car the BA 10 upgrades to) in the city I evacuate the BA 10 factory to?
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Denniss »

No, as said before it's only a unit upgrade path for equipment in units. A factory upgrade path would be labelled as such, look at BA-20.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

BA-10 facs do not upgrade - it just has a unit upgrade path but no factory upgrade path.

so production stops in Sept and it's just the BA10s that have been built that turn into BA64s?

Does this also mean that the SU2 factory in Kharkov just shuts and the built SU2s turn magically into IL2ms a bit later? If so, how?
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: No idea

If I understand how evacuation works the more points you evacuate (no matter they are armaments or equipment ones) the less damage the factory will have. So, it is better to evacuate the 15 armaments points of Tula in a single time than evacuating one point per turn. Am I right?

On top of that, you can evacuate factories where you like so, why evacuating them to Stalingrad (to say one place) when they can sit forever safely on the Urals?

Critical levels to destroy as Germany.

HVY: 236 Need to get under: 200 or destroy 36+
AP: 370 Need to get under: 300 or destroy 70+
Fuel: 149 Need to get under: 140 or capture 9+

If I cant do that I have other options, but if I can do any of the three plus my other options ****

before tanks and planes ect I would move your trucks first as the truck opinion for me = a draw everytime.

Russia can do without all the tanks ect, but no trucks no fuel for tanks
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Denniss »

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
ORIGINAL: Denniss

BA-10 facs do not upgrade - it just has a unit upgrade path but no factory upgrade path.

so production stops in Sept and it's just the BA10s that have been built that turn into BA64s?

Does this also mean that the SU2 factory in Kharkov just shuts and the built SU2s turn magically into IL2ms a bit later? If so, how?
production of both stop after end date. BA-10 and SU-2 in units will be exchanged (upgraded) to the preferred new element/aircraft or swapped to an alternative if the game engine sees a need for it.
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by No idea »

ORIGINAL: Pelton
ORIGINAL: No idea

If I understand how evacuation works the more points you evacuate (no matter they are armaments or equipment ones) the less damage the factory will have. So, it is better to evacuate the 15 armaments points of Tula in a single time than evacuating one point per turn. Am I right?

On top of that, you can evacuate factories where you like so, why evacuating them to Stalingrad (to say one place) when they can sit forever safely on the Urals?

Critical levels to destroy as Germany.

HVY: 236 Need to get under: 200 or destroy 36+
AP: 370 Need to get under: 300 or destroy 70+
Fuel: 149 Need to get under: 140 or capture 9+

If I cant do that I have other options, but if I can do any of the three plus my other options ****

before tanks and planes ect I would move your trucks first as the truck opinion for me = a draw everytime.

Russia can do without all the tanks ect, but no trucks no fuel for tanks

Fortunately in my current server game as the soviets I have saved every single truck point.

what happens if the german player manages to destroy or capture more than 36 HI, 70 ARM or 9 fuel? Do any of those 3 options cripple the soviet player or what?

By the way, how losing just 9 fuel out of 149 can make any difference? Above all, most of the russian oil and fuel came, irl from the USA (via lend lease), more than from soviet sources. Taking one of the Caucasus oilfields (just one with 9 oil points) should not cripple the SU much (in fact, irl the germans took one of them, dont remember which one, altough they hold onto it for just a few months)
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RE: Question on evacuation of factories and damage dealt on evacuation

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: No idea

ORIGINAL: Pelton
ORIGINAL: No idea

If I understand how evacuation works the more points you evacuate (no matter they are armaments or equipment ones) the less damage the factory will have. So, it is better to evacuate the 15 armaments points of Tula in a single time than evacuating one point per turn. Am I right?

On top of that, you can evacuate factories where you like so, why evacuating them to Stalingrad (to say one place) when they can sit forever safely on the Urals?

Critical levels to destroy as Germany.

HVY: 236 Need to get under: 200 or destroy 36+
AP: 370 Need to get under: 300 or destroy 70+
Fuel: 149 Need to get under: 140 or capture 9+

If I cant do that I have other options, but if I can do any of the three plus my other options ****

before tanks and planes ect I would move your trucks first as the truck opinion for me = a draw everytime.

Russia can do without all the tanks ect, but no trucks no fuel for tanks

Fortunately in my current server game as the soviets I have saved every single truck point.

what happens if the german player manages to destroy or capture more than 36 HI, 70 ARM or 9 fuel? Do any of those 3 options cripple the soviet player or what?

By the way, how losing just 9 fuel out of 149 can make any difference? Above all, most of the russian oil and fuel came, irl from the USA (via lend lease), more than from soviet sources. Taking one of the Caucasus oilfields (just one with 9 oil points) should not cripple the SU much (in fact, irl the germans took one of them, dont remember which one, altough they hold onto it for just a few months)

Each pt above those levels slow down Red Army's drive west. It takes longer to upgrade ( new tanks ect and squads) and longer to replace loses.
As far as trucks go, its the same issue - Russia will have a truck shortage, but the key is how much of a shortage?

Also manpower centers add to this delay, the more you over run the less replacements.

So as you effect each area this means the Germans can hold the lines longer which causes an issue as far as a draw goes or a win.

IF your able to effect all areas then a draw is a given using the right strategy's 43-45.

The truck area is the one that's generally over looked by Russian players 41/42 and the easiest for German player to effect.
Every tank/cav/mech unit that's put on the front German players should be attacking to get retreats or routes this can make a HUGE difference over a 100 turns.

I just smile every time I see a Russian player use a tank brigade to cover retreats or use to block.

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