Aircraft R&D amount per month

[jcax101]

Current stock scenario 1.

At 100 R&D points the availability of an aircraft may be moved up one month per Section 13.5.

Is it a maximum of 100 R&D points, and anything above 100 is wasted? I've read where a size 30 R&D factory is the maximum number of R&D points that can come from one R&D location, but what if you have ten separate size 30 R&D locations researching the same aircraft? In theory you would get 300 R&D points per month; so does that mean you have the potential to move up the aircraft's arrival date three times?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, but it's late.

Thanks,
Scott

[koniu]

Is it a maximum of 100 R&D points, and anything above 100 is wasted?

No, points will be moved to another month of resarch.

I've read where a size 30 R&D factory is the maximum number of R&D points that can come from one R&D location, but what if you have ten separate size 30 R&D locations researching the same aircraft? In theory you would get 300 R&D points per month; so does that mean you have the potential to move up the aircraft's arrival date three times?

30 size factory is optimal because it gives 1 R&D point every turn. Smaller factories will not give points everyday, bigger factories will still give only 1 point daily
It is better to have two R&D factories of size 30 than one of size 60.

IF You can produce 300 R&D point in one month this will move plane 3 months forward.
Each 100 points is one month forward. If i remember correctly my record was having plane 15 or 16 month ealier

[DanSez]

Usually there is more than one month of time before the model goes to production so...

Each day the points accumulate and when you get to 100, the month of production is accelerated forward. Any more than the 100 are applied to the next month goal.

Let's say you are producing 12 points of R&D per day.
Day 1 - 12 points
Day 2 - 24 points
Day 3 - 36 points
Day 4 - 48 points
Day 5 - 60 points
Day 6 - 72 points
Day 7 - 84 points
Day 8 - 96 points
Day 9 - 4 points gets the advance and you have 8 points toward the next advance
Day 10 - 20 points
Day 11 - 32 points (and so on)

In the wild and crazy situation you are getting 300 R&D Points per day, theoretically, you would be accelerating the Production day by 3 months each day.

[PaxMondo]

you only start with ~90 factories, so even with all committed to RnD, you can't quite get to 1 month/day.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
you only start with ~90 factories, so even with all committed to RnD, you can't quite get to 1 month/day.

Engine bonus [;)]

ORIGINAL: koniu
Each 100 points is one month forward. If i remember correctly my record was having plane 15 or 16 month ealier

Purely theoretically, with no realistic R&D Oscar-IV with arrival somewhere in mid 45 in stock can start being researched in Jan 1942, and get engine bonus for 10+ factories in Feb. If Japan is striving for Guinness no matter actual war, it can get 1 advance a day very soon and get the plane in mid 1942. Or in autumn with realistic R&D. With the rest of Empire in shambles )

[Jorge_Stanbury]

As far as I know, with realistic R&D units will not repair if the their arrival date is way too far in the future. With realistic R&D I don't think you can accelerate a model by more than 6 to 8 months.

Without realistic R&D you can have jets in 1942

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
With realistic R&D I don't think you can accelerate a model by more than 6 to 8 months.

My understanding is realistic does not allow to switch production factories to R&D, that's all. Point generation does not depend on reaism, hence advances do not either.
In case I described it means one can't build Oscar-Ic factories in a month to size 30 then convert them to R&D Oscar-IV, instead needs to wait R&D for Oscar-IIa fully repaired, which would take ~3 months. +not that many factories will be available for R&D.

And no, you can't get jets in 1942 because repairing would take forever (~60% of time) in any realism case. Oscar is unique because of the early and long R&D chain and easy early engine bonus. Zero is also good candidate for Guinness accelerations. Not recommended for actual games ofc since costs are horrendous

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Without realistic R&D you can have jets in 1942

Really? Would that be Jan 42 or Dec 42?
You have to R&D both the frame and the engine and both are early 46.

Scenario 2 - 30 factories. Lets assume with supply issues it would take two months to get them all at 30 factories.
Date 1 Feb 1942
30 factories R&D the NE Turbojet (Jan 1946)
From 1 Feb 1942 to Jan 1946 there are 4700 points of R&D required
4700 / 30 + 3.287(Daily Advance) = 141.196 days (assuming the Random Factor doesn't slow us down).
That would be getting the engine in about 5 months.
Great, but in the mean time, there would be no other engines being produced.

It would be even harder under Scenario 1 (fewer Engine factories)

Unless you are playing against the AI or against someone completely incompetent, then the risk of trying to get that engine anytine in 1942 is not worth it.

That isn't even addressing the issue of Frame R&D. Until you get a fully repaired factory, Engine bonus does not apply. No matter how many factories you have in R&D, it will be approximately 30 months before the first one would be repaired. That would be (Dec 41 + 30 Months) May/June 1944.
So on that factor alone I am calling Urban Legend.

Now, I am no expert, so if you can steer me toward some proof that this worked, I would be interested in reading about it. Did anyone ever try this in an AAR?

I would be curious how the Japanese survived with everything else not being researched and very little produced for the first year of the war.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

What is the worth? looking at your opponent's face once you send early jets vs. his sorry lot of P-39s, P-40s & Wildcats [:D] That is a true MasterCard moment, specially if your opponent is new to WITP-AE and doesn't fully understand the implications of realistic R&D on/ off
The jet comment was more a joke, but I guess it should be possible to do, you already highlighted that it is achievable in around 5 months

I have never played and I will never play with the unrealistic R&D setting. Neither in a PBEM nor against the AI.

With realistic R&D this is not possible simply because factories won't repair if the date is too far away in the future. you can have make any R&D factory research jets, but it will remain as 0(30) without repairing for a long time

[GetAssista]

[Alfred mode on]
Section 2.4.8 of the manual specifically states that

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
... realistic does not allow to switch production factories to R&D, that's all.

So this applies regardless:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
factories won't repair if the date is too far away in the future. you can have make any R&D factory research jets, but it will remain as 0(30) without repairing for a long time

[Alfred mode off]

actually, you can have repairs on jet R&D factories start even in 1941, like a couple points. But it does not matter because you need full repaired factory and that would take into late 1943 if you are lucky

[Jorge_Stanbury]

With unrealistic R&D "you can convert the production of factories which are producing currently available aircraft into ones researching future aircraft." quote from the manual page 23

So lets say you build all your producing factories, those bulding A6M2 Zeros or early Oscars... into a big number, lets say 150... then you change them to a future model... without any penalty you will be accelerating significantly the chosen model.

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

With unrealistic R&D "you can convert the production of factories which are producing currently available aircraft into ones researching future aircraft." quote from the manual page 23

So lets say you build all your producing factories, those bulding A6M2 Zeros or early Oscars... into a big number, lets say 150... then you change them to a future model... without any penalty you will be accelerating significantly the chosen model.

Ok...
For those 150 A6M2 factories, you can upgrade thru a complicated channel to get the first Armored Zero A6M5c sometime in late 1942 as those factories will switch between Production and R&D without loss or repair.

BUT...
If you switch those 150 A6M2 factories over to the Kikka Air Frame:
You will lose a certain percentage (destroyed)
And the rest will be Not Repaired

so you might have 125 totally Unrepaired factories working on the Kikka jet, but it will take 25 to 30 months at best to start getting them repaired to actually start advancing that 1946 delivery date.

The 5 months you latched onto in your reply is in reference to getting the Jet Engine researched, which means no other engines being produced (ie no replacement planes for months) and then when being produced would just sit in digital warehouses for a couple of years waiting for the Air Frame to be developed.

The Oscars, Zeros and Bettys do get a nice early boost with Realistic R&D OFF, but again only 4 or 5 months earlier even in the hands of a skilled player (vs Realistic R&D OFF).

PDU OFF is the real killer for restricting advance of mid/late war models. Not Realistic R&D ON/OFF

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Point taken; you cannot get the jets that early. You will need to work with planes with evolutionary paths. But still getting the best, the ultimate models of Zero, Tojos, Oscars, etc 2 years in advance is too much for my liking

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Point taken; you cannot get the jets that early. You will need to work with planes with evolutionary paths. But still getting the best, the ultimate models of Zero, Tojos, Oscars, etc 2 years in advance is too much for my liking

Fair point in return. This game requires a long long commitment.