USS. Harry S. Truman Fired On?

[Footslogger]

Yes Gentlemen, she was nearly hit.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ira ... &ocid=iehp

[desicat]

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Yes Gentlemen, she was nearly hit.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ira ... &ocid=iehp

"The Iranian vessels came as close at 1,500 yards from the USS Harry S. Truman before firing the rockets in a direction away from the carrier,"

They aren't crazy - I think.....

[wdolson]

According to the article, the missiles were all fired away from the Truman and other ships.

[Lokasenna]

"Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." Or these thread titles, for that matter.

I mean, really. There are better places.

[HansBolter]

They also gave warning of the 'test' firing albeit only 23 minutes in advance.

Obviously a provocation, but not a rogue attempt at an attack.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Yes Gentlemen, she was nearly hit.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ira ... &ocid=iehp

Is that the X-47B on the aft deck?

Wonder if the USN warned Iran that they'd pass through the Strait?

Fred

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Wonder if the USN warned Iran that they'd pass through the Strait?

No reason to. And many reasons not to. Not that the Iranians don't have the ability to know about it ahead of time.

[Lokasenna]

It's not like most of the strait isn't Iran's territorial waters, per maritime law, or anything.

[Amoral]

The US sails a carrier through the straits, and then calls Iran provocative when they conduct a test in their own territorial waters. That's pretty ballsy.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Amoral

The US sails a carrier through the straits, and then calls Iran provocative when they conduct a test in their own territorial waters. That's pretty ballsy.

[8|]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Amoral

The US sails a carrier through the straits, and then calls Iran provocative when they conduct a test in their own territorial waters. That's pretty ballsy.

I mean, it was meant to be provocative. But it's also pretty harmless. They (Iran) and we (US) all know that actually shooting at us would be very bad for them.

But to get all bent out of shape for them doing completely predictable things within sight of their own shore is rather asinine, and this article is meant to provoke outrage over it for dubious reasons.

[Lecivius]

Just to be 100% clear, it is not "their own territorial waters".

Just wanted to be clear on that. The Iranians are sure to have a proprietary interest in the straights, and I can understand that. But it is not theirs.

Carry on [8D]

[Lokasenna]

Just because the United States doesn't recognize all of UNCLOS doesn't mean it's not a thing. We're basically the only major country in the world that isn't at least a signatory - and not because we don't recognize 12-miles for territorial waters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... of_the_Sea

In the 20th century, territorial waters claims expanded outwards from 3 nautical miles to 12. The Strait of Hormuz is jointly (and reasonably) claimed by Iran and Oman. The entire thing is made up of, in terms of international relations, the territorial waters of those two countries. Every time we sail through it we're sailing through somebody else's ocean.

A comparable situation would be if there was some kind of conflict in Canada, and somehow it made sense for, say, Russia to send its navy/aircraft carriers into the Canadian waters to get to Victoria or somewhere - but in doing so, they sailed through the Strait of Juan de Fuca, which is 10-18 miles wide and split between Canadian/US territorial waters. A person couldn't reasonably claim that the Strait of Juan de Fuca isn't made up of Canadian/American territory, right? I mean, that would be ridiculous.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Just because the United States doesn't recognize all of UNCLOS doesn't mean it's not a thing. We're basically the only major country in the world that isn't at least a signatory - and not because we don't recognize 12-miles for territorial waters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... of_the_Sea

In the 20th century, territorial waters claims expanded outwards from 3 nautical miles to 12. The Strait of Hormuz is jointly (and reasonably) claimed by Iran and Oman. The entire thing is made up of, in terms of international relations, the territorial waters of those two countries. Every time we sail through it we're sailing through somebody else's ocean.

A comparable situation would be if there was some kind of conflict in Canada, and somehow it made sense for, say, Russia to send its navy/aircraft carriers into the Canadian waters to get to Victoria or somewhere - but in doing so, they sailed through the Strait of Juan de Fuca, which is 10-18 miles wide and split between Canadian/US territorial waters. A person couldn't reasonably claim that the Strait of Juan de Fuca isn't made up of Canadian/American territory, right? I mean, that would be ridiculous.

Even if we were a signatory, the Convention has rights of innocent passage for military vessels. The carrier was clearly exercising this passage right. The USN conducts innocent passage demonstrations all over the world every year to demonstrate our standing with this concept, even though we have not signed the UNCLS.

[Lecivius]

The straights are also 39 miles across at it's narrowest. At no point (that I am aware of) does the channel cross within the 12 mile limit of Iran. In fact, the only navigable channel that I am aware of that crosses completely within the 12 mile limit of another country is the Bosporus Straights.

Where else should we draw a line?

Straight of Juan de Fuca? - US or Canada?

English Channel? - British or French?

Staights of Gibraltar? - Spanish or Morocco?

Straights of Malacca? - Singhalese, Maylay, or Indonesia?

Skagerrak? - Denmark or Norway? (this may be a bad example)

Baltic Sea...6 of 1 and you pick em

There are many close waterways. The Chinese just came through US waters, and while some folks got excited, they were within their rights as well. How excited do you think they would have become if a C.G. Cutter had gone out & conducted live fire drills?

I could probably say more, but I gotta get on this conference call. Peace guys, not trying to pick a fight [;)]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Just because the United States doesn't recognize all of UNCLOS doesn't mean it's not a thing. We're basically the only major country in the world that isn't at least a signatory - and not because we don't recognize 12-miles for territorial waters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... of_the_Sea

In the 20th century, territorial waters claims expanded outwards from 3 nautical miles to 12. The Strait of Hormuz is jointly (and reasonably) claimed by Iran and Oman. The entire thing is made up of, in terms of international relations, the territorial waters of those two countries. Every time we sail through it we're sailing through somebody else's ocean.

A comparable situation would be if there was some kind of conflict in Canada, and somehow it made sense for, say, Russia to send its navy/aircraft carriers into the Canadian waters to get to Victoria or somewhere - but in doing so, they sailed through the Strait of Juan de Fuca, which is 10-18 miles wide and split between Canadian/US territorial waters. A person couldn't reasonably claim that the Strait of Juan de Fuca isn't made up of Canadian/American territory, right? I mean, that would be ridiculous.

Even if we were a signatory, the Convention has rights of innocent passage for military vessels. The carrier was clearly exercising this passage right. The USN conducts innocent passage demonstrations all over the world every year to demonstrate our standing with this concept, even though we have not signed the UNCLS.

Right, innocent passage is fine. I'm not saying the USN did anything wrong at all. I just think these "articles" are spurious and intended purely to inspire outrage over something that adds up to diddly.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

The straights are also 39 miles across at it's narrowest. At no point (that I am aware of) does the channel cross within the 12 mile limit of Iran. In fact, the only navigable channel that I am aware of that crosses completely within the 12 mile limit of another country is the Bosporus Straights.

Where else should we draw a line?

Straight of Juan de Fuca? - US or Canada?

English Channel? - British or French?

Staights of Gibraltar? - Spanish or Morocco?

Straights of Malacca? - Singhalese, Maylay, or Indonesia?

Skagerrak? - Denmark or Norway? (this may be a bad example)

Baltic Sea...6 of 1 and you pick em

There are many close waterways. The Chinese just came through US waters, and while some folks got excited, they were within their rights as well. How excited do you think they would have become if a C.G. Cutter had gone out & conducted live fire drills?

I could probably say more, but I gotta get on this conference call. Peace guys, not trying to pick a fight [;)]

Google tells me:
The Strait of Hormuz connects the Persian Gulf with the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea. At its narrowest point, the strait is 21 miles wide.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Right, innocent passage is fine. I'm not saying the USN did anything wrong at all. I just think these "articles" are spurious and intended purely to inspire outrage over something that adds up to diddly.

On that I completely agree. This from someone who was there when a Soviet intel trawler--at the 3-mile-limit--tried to ram his boat. Innocent passage? Pashaw. They'd been there for days. A really ugly female cook too.

There seems to be a real cottage industry in the dim, dusty corners of the "press" dedicated to drumming up faux outrage among the low-data portion of the US population who get their foreign policy from Call of Duty games.

[Lecivius]

Straits of Dover is only 20 miles wide. Both British & French control it. Neither claim it (I don't think, I could be wrong, there are sure to be some sort of boundaries). I'm sure Warspite or someone from that part of the world could offer a better opinion, but picture the uproar if the Royal Navy had a live fire drill in there, let alone while the Kiev was transiting.

The Strait of Gibraltar is, what? 7-10 miles across? Who gets that?

The Straight of Juan de Fuca channel goes back & forth. between Canada & the U.S. Ships of all nations transit that, including China.

Again, not trying to start something. But by law, it is not theirs to 'claim' any more than the Arabian, or Persian Gulf, or the South China Sea.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

There seems to be a real cottage industry in the dim, dusty corners of the "press" dedicated to drumming up faux outrage among the low-data portion of the US population who get their foreign policy from Call of Duty games.

Completely, totally agree