Fall (German) = Case (English)

[rkr1958]

You guys probably already new that Fall in German translates into Case in English, but I didn't. I had always wondered why the German invasion of Poland was referred to as either Case White or Fall Weiss. Similarly, Case Yellow or Fall Gelb and then Case Red or Fall Rot.

I had always applied in my mind the "English" meaning of the word "Fall". So when I heard Fall Weiss (Case White) for the invasion of Poland, I interpreted that as operation Weiss intended for the fall. The actual invasion occurred on Sep 1 but that was close enough to fall to make sense to me. Then, I interpreted Fall Weiss (Case Yellow) and operation Weiss intended for the fall of '39 but actually launched in the Spring of '40. Same for Fall Rot (Case Red). Though in that case my mind interpreted (or translated) "Rot" to mean the state of the French Army.

Sorry to all the native German speakers ... I now better now.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

You guys probably already new that Fall in German translates into Case in English, but I didn't. I had always wondered why the German invasion of Poland was referred to as either Case White or Fall Weiss. Similarly, Case Yellow or Fall Gelb and then Case Red or Fall Rot.

I had always applied in my mind the "English" meaning of the word "Fall". So when I heard Fall Weiss (Case White) for the invasion of Poland, I interpreted that as operation Weiss intended for the fall. The actual invasion occurred on Sep 1 but that was close enough to fall to make sense to me. Then, I interpreted Fall Weiss (Case Yellow) and operation Weiss intended for the fall of '39 but actually launched in the Spring of '40. Same for Fall Rot (Case Red). Though in that case my mind interpreted (or translated) "Rot" to mean the state of the French Army.

Sorry to all the native German speakers ... I now better now.

warspite1

Don't forget Fall Grun (Green) - The proposed invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938.

I wonder why Norway didn't have a colour?

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

You guys probably already new that Fall in German translates into Case in English, but I didn't. I had always wondered why the German invasion of Poland was referred to as either Case White or Fall Weiss. Similarly, Case Yellow or Fall Gelb and then Case Red or Fall Rot.

I had always applied in my mind the "English" meaning of the word "Fall". So when I heard Fall Weiss (Case White) for the invasion of Poland, I interpreted that as operation Weiss intended for the fall. The actual invasion occurred on Sep 1 but that was close enough to fall to make sense to me. Then, I interpreted Fall Weiss (Case Yellow) and operation Weiss intended for the fall of '39 but actually launched in the Spring of '40. Same for Fall Rot (Case Red). Though in that case my mind interpreted (or translated) "Rot" to mean the state of the French Army.

Sorry to all the native German speakers ... I now better now.

warspite1

Don't forget Fall Grun (Green) - The proposed invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938.

I wonder why Norway didn't have a colour?

I thought Case Green was Ireland?

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

You guys probably already new that Fall in German translates into Case in English, but I didn't. I had always wondered why the German invasion of Poland was referred to as either Case White or Fall Weiss. Similarly, Case Yellow or Fall Gelb and then Case Red or Fall Rot.

I had always applied in my mind the "English" meaning of the word "Fall". So when I heard Fall Weiss (Case White) for the invasion of Poland, I interpreted that as operation Weiss intended for the fall. The actual invasion occurred on Sep 1 but that was close enough to fall to make sense to me. Then, I interpreted Fall Weiss (Case Yellow) and operation Weiss intended for the fall of '39 but actually launched in the Spring of '40. Same for Fall Rot (Case Red). Though in that case my mind interpreted (or translated) "Rot" to mean the state of the French Army.

Sorry to all the native German speakers ... I now better now.

warspite1

Don't forget Fall Grun (Green) - The proposed invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938.

I wonder why Norway didn't have a colour?

The Kriegsmarine was in charge for that one. And they used the word "Unternehmen" for their operations, often in conjunction with the name of a river in Germany and disguising it as a training operation (in German: "Übung"). Therefore: "Unternehmen Weserübung". Of course, the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht called it "Fall Weserübung" for their parts of the operation...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

You guys probably already new that Fall in German translates into Case in English, but I didn't. I had always wondered why the German invasion of Poland was referred to as either Case White or Fall Weiss. Similarly, Case Yellow or Fall Gelb and then Case Red or Fall Rot.

I had always applied in my mind the "English" meaning of the word "Fall". So when I heard Fall Weiss (Case White) for the invasion of Poland, I interpreted that as operation Weiss intended for the fall. The actual invasion occurred on Sep 1 but that was close enough to fall to make sense to me. Then, I interpreted Fall Weiss (Case Yellow) and operation Weiss intended for the fall of '39 but actually launched in the Spring of '40. Same for Fall Rot (Case Red). Though in that case my mind interpreted (or translated) "Rot" to mean the state of the French Army.

Sorry to all the native German speakers ... I now better now.

warspite1

Don't forget Fall Grun (Green) - The proposed invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938.

I wonder why Norway didn't have a colour?

I thought Case Green was Ireland?

warspite1

According to Wiki there was a contingency for Ireland with that name. However Fall Grun is more commonly associated with the events of 1938 - which of course were superseded by Munich.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

You guys probably already new that Fall in German translates into Case in English, but I didn't. I had always wondered why the German invasion of Poland was referred to as either Case White or Fall Weiss. Similarly, Case Yellow or Fall Gelb and then Case Red or Fall Rot.

I had always applied in my mind the "English" meaning of the word "Fall". So when I heard Fall Weiss (Case White) for the invasion of Poland, I interpreted that as operation Weiss intended for the fall. The actual invasion occurred on Sep 1 but that was close enough to fall to make sense to me. Then, I interpreted Fall Weiss (Case Yellow) and operation Weiss intended for the fall of '39 but actually launched in the Spring of '40. Same for Fall Rot (Case Red). Though in that case my mind interpreted (or translated) "Rot" to mean the state of the French Army.

Sorry to all the native German speakers ... I now better now.

warspite1

Don't forget Fall Grun (Green) - The proposed invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938.

I wonder why Norway didn't have a colour?

The Kriegsmarine was in charge for that one. And they used the word "Unternehmen" for their operations, often in conjunction with the name of a river in Germany and disguising it as a training operation (in German: "Übung"). Therefore: "Unternehmen Weserübung". Of course, the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht called it "Fall Weserübung" for their parts of the operation...

warspite1

Interesting you say the navy were in charge. Have you got a source for that? From what I can see, General Falkenhorst's XXI army corps were in charge of planning. What is unclear to me is that the navy would have needed to be consulted at the very least. But I do not see where Falkenhorst and Raeder's men (or the Luftwaffe for that matter) came into the planning from the point of view of the high level of co-operation required??

Ah okay here we go.....

Looking at Geirr H Haarr's excellent The German Invasion of Norway, Hitler ordered Jodl (Chief of the Operations Office at OKW) to look into intervention in Norway in December 1939 with the smallest possible staff. This investigation 'Studie Nord' was completed in early January.

Neither the Army or Air Force showed much interest in this study (they were occupied with Fall Gelb) but Raeder on his own initiative ordered the SKL to develop these plans for such an operation. Norway then fell away from everyone's view until the Altmark incident the following month. It was at this point that Falkenhorst was ordered to put a plan together by Hitler.

This plan would have lent heavily on SKL's previous work. It makes perfect sense for the navy to have done the work on what shipping was available and what they could realistically achieve - and for the army to work their plans around this.

Whilst this sounds obvious (that the navy would have had the most say in any such operation) it must be remembered how Operation Sealion was 'planned' i.e. the army said what they wanted, the navy (Raeder) said it was not possible for the Kriegsmarine to provide - and Hitler simply agreeing with the army in a meeting that Raeder was not even present at [:D]

[brian brian]

I think a better way to look at Who's-in-charge for the Germans in Norway was that it was an OKW operation, rather than an OKH operation. OKH = purely the Army. OKW = Germany's not-that-successful attempt at making a Joint Chiefs of Staff. I'm not sure who made the call on naming the operation, but I'm pretty sure it was OKW's first "show"

Ultimately as the war went along OKH became completely in charge of the Eastern Front and OKW was left with ... the Mediterranean, I guess. When you get frustrated with action limits playing World in Flames, just read some high level memoirs from the German commanders and they begin to make more sense.


Wasn't there also Fall Blau = Case Blue = the powerful 1942 offensive towards Stalingrad, no, wait, towards Baku, no wait, towards Stalingrad, no, wait, towards ... ???

[warspite1]

The status of, and the relations between, OKH and OKW are yet one more fascinating subject in the WWII story. OKW was responsible for all theatres, other than the East which Hitler himself ran through the offices of OKH after the exit of von Brauchistch.

Yes, Case Blue was the 1942 offensive in Southern Russia. Barbarossa was felt to be too big, too important for a simple colour and was given the name Barbarossa after Frederick Barbarossa, an Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire in the 12th Century.