Sappers Assaulting Atolls

[jcax101]

PBEM Stock Scenario 1. In the two atoll assaults below the Sapper Units were completely destroyed. Each Sapper had approximately 40 prep points for the respective island. Why, and what can I do in the future to avoid their complete destruction? Stacking wasn't an issue and neither was control of the air or sea. Slight losses while unloading but nothing out of the ordinary.

Thanks - Scott

ASSAULT 1 AT WAKE:

Ground combat at Wake Island (136,98)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4514 troops, 42 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 183

Defending force 1810 troops, 69 guns, 9 vehicles, Assault Value = 56

Japanese adjusted assault: 79

Allied adjusted defense: 72

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2191 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 113 disabled
Non Combat: 48 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 62 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 17 (3 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
137 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (8 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Assaulting units:
20th Engineer Regiment
Maizuru 2nd SNLF
83rd Naval Guard Unit
44th Naval Guard Unit

Defending units:
Wake USN CPNAB
1st Marine Defense Battalion
Wake (Det.) Defense Battalion

ASSAULT 2 AT CANTON:

Ground combat at Canton Island (153,143)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3684 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 166

Defending force 1813 troops, 77 guns, 40 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Japanese adjusted assault: 60

Allied adjusted defense: 4

Japanese assault odds: 15 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Canton Island !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 6 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
533 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
1585 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 205 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 20 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 97 (97 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 59 (59 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 4

Assaulting units:
1st Engineer Co
62nd Infantry Bde /1
56th Infantry Bde /1

Defending units:
57th Coastal Artillery Regiment
114th USAAF Base Force
Canton USN CPNAB
428th Coast AA Battalion

[wdolson]

When you have stacks of units, they are sorted at random at the start of combat. Non-combat units will be put at the bottom of the stack, but it's otherwise completely random. It's a quirk of the combat routine, but the units at the top of the stack will take more punishment than those further down. In this case, the combat engineer units ended up at the top of the stack and got hammered. Combat engineers will also take damage when they try to remove fortifications, so you got a double whammy.

The more combat units you have in a fight, the more likely one of the other units will end up on top, but that's still just luck of the draw.

Bill

[crsutton]

For a defended atoll, 40 prep points is probably not enough. I would say the next time you will "need a bigger boat" Higher prep points and more troops will increase your odds and thus increase the chance of any one unit surviving. I have been playing this stupid (fine) game ever since it came out and and I still manage to screw up atoll attacks more often that not.

[Dili]

You can see the odds was a coin toss. So you had no advantage. The solution is to attack and disrupt the place before committing the land troops if you have a not so well prep value.

[witpqs]

I also found out the hard way that the game code requires or basically infantry squads be part of the attack or the engineers are wiped out either automatically or basically automatically. Never have a combat engineer-only unit make a landing by itself!! [:D]

[jcax101]

Thanks for all the replies. And yes 40 isn't very much, but sometimes you have to land.

Maybe an obvious question regarding the combat reports...Is the combat report showing the order of the stack? That helps explain a lot if that's the case.

Thanks.

[Alfred]

Nothing is ever a "must" in AE.
 
One of the things which peeved Symon most was players saying, compounded by it usually being based solely on their own imperfect anecdotal game experiences, that "x" or "y" must be done.  There is always an opportunity cost to every action and there is always an alternative course of action available.
 
The landing on Canton Island was a very poorly organised and executed operation.  There was zero need for landing the sappers.  The island could have been much more cheaply captured in the same time frame.
 
Alfred

[geofflambert]

Combat engineers should be used very carefully, especially if we're talking non US units. If you use them at all I would say put them in the second wave, before that do your landing without any additional assault. If he wants to assault you, all the better.