Questionable Kills

[RangerX3X]

I have this ongoing PBEM++ scenario for Soviet Punch where my Red Army forces are getting killed at an unreal rate. For each shot fired that I see on the screen in most instances two Warsaw Pact vehicles end up being destroyed.

I have played two turns and have been hammering his positions at the bridgeheads with artillery and I have a grand total of one kill, and that came from air defense on an aircraft:



However I have suffered 69 vehicles destroyed and 24 fallen out: this seems quite dodgy to me.

[CapnDarwin]

Tim, can you get me a screen of the battlefield sans TOC to see the area in question? Thanks.

[RangerX3X]

This is the end of my turn:



Yay I picked up two more kills however everyone in my center group is now dead:

[IronMikeGolf]

What is shooting and what is being killed? Keep in mind it is not "one shot". It's a platoon engaging.

Unobserved arty (target unit is not spotted) is less effective. A prep fired at tanks in urban will also likely get you a Readiness reduction as opposed to kills. If you are shooting at an unspotted unit, it's even less likely to get a kill. Given that, you're better off (ammo conservation) firing Suppression missions for preps at suspected enemy locations.

[RangerX3X]

What was shooting were NATO tanks on the left side of the dual bridge, what was being killed was the force I marched up the center as a diversion. All of them were killed and none of them managed to obtain a single kill against those tanks.

[cbelva]

Tim, do you have a saved game file you can send me.&nbsp;The turn where the units get killed. I would like to watch the turn unfold. You can send it to <crbelva@comcast.net>

[RangerX3X]

ORIGINAL: cbelva

Tim, do you have a saved game file you can send me. The turn where the units get killed. I would like to watch the turn unfold. You can send it to <crbelva@comcast.net>

Unfortunately no, it is an in progress PBEM++ game that is at turn five now (three turns later I think) and I won’t have the file again until the other player completes their turn. I am not sure if it would be of any help to you or not in that state, but if so let me know and I will try to save it when it comes back to me.

[RangerX3X]

After questioning the other player as to why his West German unit counters were showing gray on my screen and not blue (as they typically are), he informs me that he is using a mod for the game (what mod I have no idea). The Soviet counters are also a brighter red than any other ongoing PBEM++ game that I have at the moment:



While I have no idea if the mod if affecting actual game play, my kills have increased to 24 (yay me):



It seems odd that there is no way to check beforehand if someone is running a mod in a PBEM++ game and giving the host the ability to accept or reject (whether it is cosmetic only or otherwise).

[CapnDarwin]

Mods bleeding thru to other player in PBEM is a new one. I agree that there should be some form of indication or better yet in the case of cosmetic art changes a flush out to your local art so both players see the game with their cosmetic mods.

[Stimpak]

It's possible that he may have modified the unit stats in that case. Perhaps your tanks have been weakened, or his strengthened in someway.

Try cross-checking the unit stats in that scenario with the unit stats in a vanilla game.

[Stimpak]

Got a problem of my own. It's a H2H test situation.
I have Pact infantry company right next to a West German tank/infantry hex. Both hexes are 90% cover - yet the West Germans are wailing on the East Germans without receiving any fire in return. There's quite a few unfortunate situations I've encountered in the past where Red units (Soviet and custom) seem reluctant to engage the enemy - in this case the East German infantry have 75% across the board; Readiness, Ammo, and Morale. The West Germans are visible and "spotted" when they open fire, but then instantly disappear when not firing.
Moving into their hex produces a stranger situation where neither the West Germans or East Germans make any attempt to engage eachother.

[TomBombadil711]

ORIGINAL: Stimpak

It's possible that he may have modified the unit stats in that case. Perhaps your tanks have been weakened, or his strengthened in someway.

Try cross-checking the unit stats in that scenario with the unit stats in a vanilla game.

I am the other player and I can assure that I did nothing to the unit stats, just use HeinzBaby's graphics mod available in the mods section.

[cbelva]

To Tim, Tom and Jacob,
&nbsp;
Thanks for your report, but what we really need a some saved game files to help us see if there is a problem and what that is. When you play the game, if you will select in the "Set Game, Player and Unit Defaults" window under the Turn Resolution tab to "autosaved game after&nbsp; each player orders phase" you will have a saved game of every turn. If a problem occurs, you will then always have a saved game of the turn where the problem was observed.
&nbsp;
To Tim and Tom--I would like to see the PBEM turn where the mod cross over occurred. If we can duplicate that&nbsp; on our machines, we can track down were the leak occurred. Also regarding the questionable, if you have a saved game where that is occurring, forward that too. Two things to remember, 1) if it is a PBEM we will need to password to open the file. 2) A detailed description of what happened and where on the map will speed things up for us in finding and dx the problem.
&nbsp;
To Jacob--Same thing to us. We need a saved game turn where you believe the red forces are not firing. We need to see a saved game file to be able to see what is happening. If this is on a map you made, we need a copy of the map files too.
&nbsp;
Thanks guys. we appreciate your help in tracking these things down. However, if we can't duplicate them, it makes it virtually impossible to fix them.

[RangerX3X]

The autosave was not checked in my parameters so I checked it and then played out a turn. The resulting file is linked here.

I did notice however that there are several other recent save files with the .pbm extension in my Steam folder even though I have previously had the autosave option unchecked. I have several active PBEM++ games and there is no easy way to tell which file goes with which scenario in order to try to provide you with an early phase of this game.

As far as where the mod cross over occured, it has pretty much been the entire game up to this point as far as I can remember.

There is no PBEM password as this was a public game on the PBEM++ system.

Not sure if you can tell anything this far in, but to the OP where my center diversionary force was eliminated without scoring a single kill, and the current situation where the Soviets only have a fraction of the kills of the West Germans. I have no issue with my ass being handed to me by using poor tactics, however the kill ratio seems way off to me based on multiple other games I have played (AI or human).

Just to clarify I am not accusing or suspecting my opponent Tom of anything untoward, however I am concerned that there may be some as yet seen issue with the underlying code.

And of course at the end of the day, I could simply be having my Red Army ass handed to me.

[RangerX3X]

The game ended on my next turn.

The final toll was 141 fallen out, 174 destroyed for the Soviets and eight fallen out, 24 destroyed for the West Germans.

[CapnDarwin]

Tim we have fixed two issues we found in the code with the LoS/LoF check that might contribute to some if this issue. That stuff is fixed in the 2.0.11 we are testing now.