What about Soviet Guards units?

VR designs has been reinforced with designer Cameron Harris and the result is a revolutionary new operational war game 'Barbarossa' that plays like none other. It blends an advanced counter pushing engine with deep narrative, people management and in-depth semi-randomized decision systems.

Moderators: Vic, lancer

Post Reply
mantrain
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:54 pm

What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by mantrain »

Couldn't find in the manual and I know historically that there were Guards units in '41.
User avatar
Michael T
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by Michael T »

I have the same thoughts...
Kronolog
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:00 pm
Location: Sweden

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by Kronolog »

As the German player has the ability to give a commendation to a succesfull division, perhaps the Soviet player should have the ability to officially bestow the Guards title to one of his.
User avatar
gunnergoz
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue May 21, 2002 4:57 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by gunnergoz »

Looks like most of the chrome in the game was saved for the German side of play.
"Things are getting better!
...Well, maybe not as good as they were yesterday, but much better than they will be tomorrow!"
-Old Russian saying
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by 76mm »

A quick look at Glantz indicates that ten Soviet Guards divisions had been designated by the end of 1941; wikipedia indicates that up to five more may have been designated by Feb 1942 (ie, the end of the game).
mantrain
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:54 pm

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by mantrain »

IMHO this game is incomplete without the reflection of the Guards units.

"The title of the Soviet Guards was first introduced on September 18, 1941 in accordance with the decision of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief (Stavka Verkhovnogo Glavnokomanduyuschego) and by the order №308 of the People's Commissar of Defense for the distinguished services during the Yelnya Offensive. The 100th, 127th, 153rd and 161st Rifle Divisions were renamed into the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Guards Divisions, respectively. The Soviet 316th Rifle Division was renamed to the 8th Guards Rifle Division on November 18, 1941, following the actions of the Panfilovtsy and was given the Panfilovskaya title in honor of its late commander Ivan Panfilov. By December 31, 1941 the 107th, 120th, 64th, 316th, 78th, and 52nd Rifle Divisions had become the 5th through 10th Guards Rifle Divisions.[2]"
wikipedia
alex0809
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by alex0809 »

This is indeed a strange omission, considering the German player does have the ability to give bonuses to individual divisions.

No mention of Guards in the designer notes, either.
User avatar
Queeg
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:33 am

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by Queeg »

My understanding is the the Guards designation was created in September 1941, so well within the time frame of the game.

I haven't yet played the Soviet side, but it would be nice to give Stalin something to bestow besides a bullet.
mantrain
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:54 pm

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by mantrain »

Yes, Wite is still the best title for this theatre for this and a few other reasons. However it is well within the reach of this title to get an par with some patches or expansions. But not having Guards units is just not acceptable IMHO.
User avatar
gunnergoz
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue May 21, 2002 4:57 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by gunnergoz »

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Yes, Wite is still the best title for this theatre for this and a few other reasons. However it is well within the reach of this title to get an par with some patches or expansions. But not having Guards units is just not acceptable IMHO.

+1
"Things are getting better!
...Well, maybe not as good as they were yesterday, but much better than they will be tomorrow!"
-Old Russian saying
User avatar
Templer_12
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by Templer_12 »

ORIGINAL: gunnergoz

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Yes, Wite is still the best title for this theatre for this and a few other reasons. However it is well within the reach of this title to get an par with some patches or expansions. But not having Guards units is just not acceptable IMHO.

+1
+2
User avatar
typhoon
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:07 pm
Location: United Kingdom

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by typhoon »

Comparisons are natural but unmerited I was guilty of the same thing when I first started playing this I wanted some of the things that War in the East did that this didn't. Then I realised that both games offer different things and accepted this game for it's innovation and ease of play after that I was able to get a long much better and freely admit that both games are worthy of attention depending on my mood. I hope more games take this novel approach to strategy. It is good also to have limits on what can and cannot be done with no god like hand able to control every aspect of the war. I really enjoy that it's fresh.
mantrain
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:54 pm

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by mantrain »

Even without Wite, shouldn't there be Soviet Guard units later in '41?
lancer
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:56 am

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by lancer »

Hi,

Guard unit designation for the Soviets is on the list of 'nice things to have'.

Some items here made it into the game and other didn't.

The Guards missed the cut as they were, for '41, a relatively minor aspect.

However they are, as you've mentioned, still important and will be introduced in a subsequent update, along with other items on the list, once everything has settled down.

Cheers,
Cameron
User avatar
jzardos
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:05 pm

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by jzardos »

ORIGINAL: Kronolog

As the German player has the ability to give a commendation to a succesfull division, perhaps the Soviet player should have the ability to officially bestow the Guards title to one of his.


Thanks for bringing this up. I can't see what this did for my PZ unit when I gave it the commendation. Didn't gain exp, morale, etc. How does this help the unit?

thanks
User avatar
gunnergoz
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue May 21, 2002 4:57 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by gunnergoz »

Appreciate the attention to the comments, Cameron. Great to see designers who listen and participate in the discussion.
"Things are getting better!
...Well, maybe not as good as they were yesterday, but much better than they will be tomorrow!"
-Old Russian saying
lancer
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:56 am

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by lancer »

Hi izardos,

Ask the unit to Report Status!

If it's a pending commendation then there will be no effect until it's gone through the Heer bureaucracy and has reached your desk. You'll need to approve the Commendation in a decision.

Once approved the unit will gain a permanent Offensive & Defensive combat bonus which from memory is about +20%.

Cheers,
Cameron
mantrain
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:54 pm

RE: What about Soviet Guards units?

Post by mantrain »

Well that's great that the designer is considering Guards units in a patch. I think this title has promise. It is truly original and, somewhat ingenious in ways, though at this point not fully matured. I can see expansions, '42 scenarios, etc. Not sure how it will all play out in the future w out concrete air units but then, as a friend pointed out, the air war was one sided until about Stalingrad.
Post Reply

Return to “Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa”