stupid question from a new player

[2gaulle]

just purchase wite yesterday and trying to understand the rules.
look like there is no way to know the odd before ground combat , is it true?
how do you do to attack or not?
is it full fog?

thank

[loki100]

first part to the answer - there are no 'stupid' questions around this game. Its deceptively deep and even long standing players don't always agree.

The key in combat is you want a final odds of 2-1 or more. That means you win and the defender abandons the hex (as a retreat, rout or surrender depending on the situation).

The problem is the published cv on the counters is not the end of the story as:

a) fog of war, if you have low recon on the defender the real cv maybe higher or lower than it appears ... you end up developing a feel for this;
b) allocation of support units .. this come from higher HQ (corps for the Germans, armies for the Soviets) and help in the combat. So for eg, artillery will help disrupt the enemy, engineers help reduce fortifications
c) command matters, not only do good commanders help in the allocation of off-map support units but they directly affect the combat values in the battle
d) disruption matters, disrupted elements don't fight and you can disrupt before combat (a ground attack by aircraft) or in the early phases of a combat (heavier artillery) which can change the odds even as the combat goes ahead
e) the number of elements matter. Thus individually Soviet elements are lower value than the Germans but there are more of them. So a weaker Soviet unit can be quite effective.
f) some terrain has a secondary effect, so armour is particularly weak in swamps
g) all this is subject to luck.

You can use the alt-cv game mode as a help as that factors in command and likely support units into the shown cvs, this makes estimating combat odds a bit less of an exercise in examining chicken livers.

over time you develop a very rough set of rules. With the Soviets (accepting the fow issue), I reckon that at start odds of <1.4-1, I have only limited chance to win (chances are in the realm of pure luck), if I get between 1.5/1.8-1 I reckon to win around 70-80% of my attacks, much over 1.9-1 and I'd only expect to lose due to the luck aspect.

there is an additional complication which is reserve reaction by either side. This may bring in new units than just those you selected, clearly it can completely change the expected odds. Crudely, if you really have to be sure you can win, go in mob handed and backed by masses of airpower and artillery ... and hope your recon was accurate.

[2gaulle]

thank but what do you mean by alt-cv game mode?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

thank but what do you mean by alt-cv game mode?

if you look at the variants of the campaign game in the scenario selection screen, you'll see one described as showing the accurate combat values (in particular they will take into account leadership bonuses), so its one option for the campaign. You can convert any scenario to that mode of display but you need to use the game editor first.

I'm not sure it helps that much as you get used to the mental adjustments after a while but it is very informative as to the real impact of leadership. load up the german T1 with that option, and just swap around leaders, see what difference a command chain of the best at corps and army level makes to using average or poor commanders.

[No idea]

I am playing the alt cv campaign now and I found something between 2 or 3 to one difference in CV almost always gives me the victory. By the way, being in command range and having a good commander makes a HUGE difference.

[2gaulle]

ok thank very much.

more clear with that mode

[manofwar]

Help!! How do I keep my armor supplied after turn 9 or 10 playing the road to Leningrad?

[sillyflower]

1 Have your FBD on the most efficient path to Pskov. You can work that out by counting hexes and MPs remembering that conversion in baltic states is faster

2 Keep an eye on MPs from unit to railhead. It's on the tooltip for each hex. More than 20 MPs (NOT hexes) reduces supply

3 Use JU 52s to fly fuel. See latest patch notes for mechanism

4 HQBU will help a lot if your units are eligible (see latest patch notes) and think of pulling them back if the aren't. Putting them on refit will help a little

5 Use your MPs wisely: don't use lots petrol doing something pointless or marginal.

6 Live with it. IRL Mansteien's corps ran out after the first few days

[2gaulle]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


3 Use JU 52s to fly fuel. See latest patch notes for mechanism

where could we find this patch notes?

thank

[swkuh]

They download with the patch, and find where download is sent.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: loki100

estimating combat odds a bit less of an exercise in examining chicken livers.

Lovely. [:D]

[valkyrion]

Just picked up the game this week and had a Couple of questions that I have not been able to figure out after going through the Velikie tutorial and reading about 1/3 of the manual so far,(hope its ok to ask here OP):
What are AP used for? I beleive from reading the manual so far that they are used when forming new Corps from stacked units or Assigning new leaders,are there other things they are used for?
Do you directly control building new divisions or are they auto created?(I am used to HOI series production) I have been able to see adding SU to the HQ units so far in the tutorial scenario but I didn't see where I can build outright Infantry division's or brigades other then tank brigades as SU's.
I also did not see anything that showed me the odds before commiting (right clicking or shift right clicking) to combat
Thanks in advance!

[WingedIncubus]

APs can also be used to create Fortified Regions, placed for example on a city or chokepoint over a major river.

As the Soviets AP also they are used to manually change the HQs of all those isolated units who are too far away from their respective HQs. When it happens I always strive to assign them to a neighboring Corps HQ to both keep them in supply and available for leader checks. Their command and control is so abysmal at the start, you'll be spending a lot of these as your defensive lines get crashed.

Nothing shows the odds before committing to an assault. You must compare your total Assault CV with your opponent's total Defence CV (so x=y on the counter, x is the Assault and y the Defence), and guesstimate your odds from there taking in account other factors like luck, leaders, hasty or deliberate attack, etc.

[swkuh]

Welcome to forum.

Important difference between SU & Axis, SU can use APs to create combat units, Axis cannot.

Otherwise assign units to HQs, build forts, change leaders, reassign support units, change aircraft, build railheads, etc. same for both sides.

Managing APs quite important once past basics, both sides.

[valkyrion]

Great thanks for that information guys that helps a lot!