Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[witpqs]

The reason for bringing the entire Nago force is that I want whatever stack is deployed to be able to defend itself. If the forces at Nago were too small, he could abandon or almost abandon Naha to bring crushing force into Nago and wipe out my guys before I could stop him.

[BBfanboy]

The road from Naha to Nago is incomplete. The rate of progress is 2 miles per day! You should have time to reinforce/interdict.

[witpqs]

Here is a summary matching up SigInt against current assignments. SigInt on Imperial forces first, followed by assigned Allied forces.

Naha
. 1943-11-21 . 12/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-21 . 14/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-21 . 3/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-21 . 5/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-21 . 8/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-22 . 11/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-22 . 7/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1943-11-22 . 9/34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1944-02-19 . 4/3rd Medium Mortar Battalion
. 1944-04-01 . 30th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1944-04-13 . 2nd Tank Regiment
. 1944-04-22 . 31st JAAF AF Bn
. 1944-05-25 . 32nd Army
. 1944-06-19 . 81st Field AA Battalion
. 1944-07-16 . Okinawa Naval Base Force
. 1944-07-19 . 3rd Medium Mortar Battalion
. 1944-07-26 . 80th Field AA Battalion
. 1944-08-08 . 39th Field AA Machinecannon Company
. 1944-08-11 . 35th Division
. 1944-08-23 . 79th Field AA Battalion
. 1944-09-02 . 34th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Naha
____0 AV . 1st USMC AA Battalion (AA)
___71 AV . 193rd Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___71 AV . 194th Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___45 AV . 1st USMC Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___45 AV . 2nd USMC Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___36 AV . 3rd Arm Amphib Tank Battalion (Armor)
___70 AV . 710th Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___71 AV . 716th Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___68 AV . 766th Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___68 AV . 767th Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
____0 AV . 1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
___17 AV . 3rd AmphTrac Engineer Battalion (Engineer)
___80 AV . XIV Corps Engr Grp (Engineer)
____0 AV . III US Amphib Force (HQ)
____0 AV . Pacific Ocean Areas (HQ)
____0 AV . Sixth US Army (HQ)
____0 AV . XIV US Corps (HQ)
__371 AV . 25th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__402 AV . 2nd Marine Division (Infantry)
__363 AV . 40th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__362 AV . 41st Infantry Division (Infantry)
__363 AV . 43rd Infantry Division (Infantry)
__370 AV . 6th Infantry Division (Infantry)
_2873 AV Total


Nago
. 1944-02-07 . 4/30th Recon Regiment
. 1944-05-17 . 9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1944-05-18 . 72nd Air Flotilla
. 1944-07-08 . 102nd AA Regiment
. 1944-07-11 . 31st Army
. 1944-07-14 . 30th Recon Regiment
. 1944-07-19 . 149th JAAF AF Bn
. 1944-08-01 . Nakagusuko-wan Fortress
. 1944-08-04 . 101st AA Regiment
. 1944-09-03 . 29th Field Construction Battalion
. 1944-09-05 . 45th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Nago
___44 AV . 670th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Armor)
____0 AV . 10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
___18 AV . 8th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion (Engineer)
__111 AV . 111th(Sep) Infantry Regiment (Infantry)
__402 AV . 5th Marine Division (Infantry)
__374 AV . 77th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__949 AV Total


Daito Shoto
. 1944-02-07 . 3/30th Field Artillery Regiment
. 1944-03-23 . 19th JAAF AF Bn
. 1944-04-14 . 1st Ind.Tank Co
. 1944-04-24 . 1/7th Air Division
. 1944-05-21 . 25th Special Base Force
. 1944-05-30 . 30th Field Artillery Regiment
. 1944-06-05 . 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1944-06-26 . 2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
. 1944-06-27 . 1st Amph.Bde Tank Battalion
. 1944-07-04 . 30th Special Base Force
. 1944-08-23 . 37th Ind.Mixed Brigade
. 1944-09-06 . 16th Field Construction Battalion

Daito Shoto
___36 AV . 1st Arm Amphib Tank Battalion (Armor)
___35 AV . 2nd Arm Amphib Tank Battalion (Armor)
___41 AV . 3rd NZ Armoured Sqn (Armor)
____0 AV . 198th Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 225th Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
___69 AV . 112th Cavalry Regiment (Cavalry)
___42 AV . 102nd Cmbt Engineer Regiment (Engineer)
___27 AV . 4th Pioneer Battalion (Engineer)
____0 AV . III Amphib Corps (HQ)
____0 AV . VII US Amphib Force (HQ)
__405 AV . 1st Marine Division (Infantry)
__146 AV . 22nd Marine Regiment (Infantry)
__133 AV . 29th Marine Regiment (Infantry)
__398 AV . 3rd Marine Division (Infantry)
__133 AV . 4th Marine Regiment (Infantry)
__369 AV . 93rd Infantry Division (Infantry)
_1834 AV Total


Amami Oshima
. 1944-05-18 . 2/8th RF Gun Battalion
. 1944-05-23 . 10/21st Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-05-23 . 13/21st Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-05-24 . 7/21st Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-05-24 . 8/21st Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-06-16 . 3/21st Special Base Force
. 1944-07-04 . 8th RF Gun Battalion
. 1944-07-23 . 21st Special Base Force
. 1944-07-25 . Amami Oshima Fortress
. 1944-07-30 . 72nd Field AA Battalion
. 1944-08-17 . 21st Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-08-18 . 6th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
. 1944-09-03 . 22nd/C Division

Amami Oshima
___52 AV . 3rd Tank Regiment (Armor)
___44 AV . 5th USMC Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
___45 AV . 627th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Armor)
____0 AV . 145th Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 223rd Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 226th Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 4th Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 82nd Mortar Battalion (Artillery)
____0 AV . 97th Field Artillery Battalion (Artillery)
___18 AV . 2nd AmphTrac Engineer Battalion (Engineer)
___18 AV . 4th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion (Engineer)
__369 AV . 24th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__374 AV . 37th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__376 AV . 38th Infantry Division (Infantry)
_1296 AV Total


Kume-jima
. 1944-08-14 . 50th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Kume-jima
___24 AV . 110th Cmbt Engineer Battalion (Engineer)
___41 AV . 131st Cmbt Engineer Regiment (Engineer)
__108 AV . 102nd(Sep) Infantry Regiment (Infantry)
__173 AV Total


Okinoerabushima
. 1944-07-07 . 3/14th Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-07-09 . 4/14th Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-08-11 . 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment
. 1944-09-02 . 56th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Okinoerabushima
___65 AV . 713th Flame Tank Tank Battalion (Armor)
__365 AV . 33rd Infantry Division (Infantry)
__430 AV Total


Tokunoshima
. 1944-08-16 . 6th South Seas Det.
. 1944-09-04 . 57th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Tokunoshima
__365 AV . 7th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__374 AV . 98th Infantry Division (Infantry)
__739 AV Total

[witpqs]

A quick forum post test (alignment of characters):

000
___
...

Edit: OK, found a way to make the figures in the prior post line up (given that the forum will usually strip more than one space-band in a row). Less than ideal, but it works.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The road from Naha to Nago is incomplete. The rate of progress is 2 miles per day! You should have time to reinforce/interdict.

The additional LCUs might still be in the Marianas, and the ships to carry them might be busy landing troops on Daito Shoto.

[witpqs]

OK, guys, I have a new utility ready. If any of you want to try it out, give me a shout.

It takes a CSV file that Tracker can export of all the LCU files. I have not yet tested it with the newest tracker release so it might require some adjusting.

Files:
LCUfilter.exe
LCUfilter.txt
LCUfilternotes.txt

Reads in file:
LCUs.csv

Creates files:
LCUfiltered.txt
LCUfiltered.csv

This is a small utility to aid in planning amphibious invasions.

- In Tracker, export a CSV of the LCUs. That file will be in the Tracker folder and called "LCUs.csv".

- Move that file to where you have this new utility (or put the new utility in your Tracker folder).

- The new utility is called "LCUfilter.py", and it has a configuration file called "LCUfilter.txt". Edit that text file to change the percentage if you like, and to add or change the bases it will filter on. It currently has "Pearl Harbor" and "Tokyo" just for illustration purposes.

- Run "LCUfilter" by double-clicking on it or by typing it in at a command prompt.

- It will create a file "LCUfiltered.txt", a list of LCUs assigned that each base you specified. This file is formatted to be suitable for posting to the forum (it will maintain column alignment).

- It will also create a file "LCUfiltered.csv" with more extensive information. Open that CSV file in your favorite spreadsheet (for example LibreOffice), and then save it in a "real" spreadsheet format like ODS or XLS (because the CSV format will not save out formulas and preserve all of your work). You can edit the spreadsheet to type in the troop and equipment (aka cargo) load cost of the units there, and the calculation columns will give you the space needed based on the percentage that was specified.

[witpqs]

Here is a screen pic of the csv file opened in LibreOffice (Excel will work, too).

[witpqs]

And the file comes with the formulas already loaded into the calculation columns. So when you fill in, say, the Troop Load size of the 5th Marine Division, the spreadsheet calculates the Troop space needed/recommended. That percentage can be set by you in the file where you enter the base names you want to filter on (and if you leave the filter list blank, you get all bases).

[RogerJNeilson]

That looks like it could be very useful, would be great to give it a try.

Roger

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

That looks like it could be very useful, would be great to give it a try.

Roger

Email on the way, Roger.

[richlove]

Very cool! I built a similar spreadsheet when trying to figure out whether I could use AP / AK groups to invade places in '42. Worked reasonably well.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: richlove

Very cool! I built a similar spreadsheet when trying to figure out whether I could use AP / AK groups to invade places in '42. Worked reasonably well.

Nice!

Can you take us through what is entered (the not as obvious fields![:D]) and what gets calculated from that?

[richlove]

Sure. Like I said, I use this spreadsheet to help build Amphibious TFs w/ APs / xAPs and AKs / xAKs (in other words, before true assault shipping hits the scene). I load one unit per TF, so I know exactly where each unit goes, all w/ the goal to unload everything in one turn. It seems to work; occasionally there's some MotSup left behind on D+1. It helps to use one type of ship per unit (all APs instead of APs + some xAPs).

Anyway:

For each unit, enter values in columns H-K - you need to keep track of what ships you have available for the operation, and this is where you allocate them.

Columns L and M calculate how much can be unloaded in one turn:
Column L:

Code: Select all

=[@[APs allocated]]*550+[@[xAPs allocated]]*250

Column M:

Code: Select all

=[@[AKs allocated]]*550+[@[xAKs allocated]]*250

Those #s come from "6.3.3.3.2.1 OVER THE BEACH" in the manual. Looking at that, I realize that I have a buffer for APs and AKs, but not xAPs or xAKs.

Columns N and O compare the troop load and cargo load to the computed fields to see if it's theoretically possible to unload them all in one turn:
Column N:

Code: Select all

=[@[Possible one day troop unload]]/[@[Troop Load]]

Column O:

Code: Select all

=[@[Possible one day cargo unload]]/[@[Cargo Load]]

If both are > 1 for the unit, it should be possible. I am happy to share the .xlsx, if requested.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: richlove

Sure. Like I said, I use this spreadsheet to help build Amphibious TFs w/ APs / xAPs and AKs / xAKs (in other words, before true assault shipping hits the scene). I load one unit per TF, so I know exactly where each unit goes, all w/ the goal to unload everything in one turn. It seems to work; occasionally there's some MotSup left behind on D+1. It helps to use one type of ship per unit (all APs instead of APs + some xAPs).

Anyway:

For each unit, enter values in columns H-K - you need to keep track of what ships you have available for the operation, and this is where you allocate them.

Columns L and M calculate how much can be unloaded in one turn:
Column L:

Code: Select all

=[@[APs allocated]]*550+[@[xAPs allocated]]*250

Column M:

Code: Select all

=[@[AKs allocated]]*550+[@[xAKs allocated]]*250

Those #s come from "6.3.3.3.2.1 OVER THE BEACH" in the manual. Looking at that, I realize that I have a buffer for APs and AKs, but not xAPs or xAKs.

Columns N and O compare the troop load and cargo load to the computed fields to see if it's theoretically possible to unload them all in one turn:
Column N:

Code: Select all

=[@[Possible one day troop unload]]/[@[Troop Load]]

Column O:

Code: Select all

=[@[Possible one day cargo unload]]/[@[Cargo Load]]

If both are > 1 for the unit, it should be possible. I am happy to share the .xlsx, if requested.

Thanks!

So, you don't bother calculating the amount of load needed (considering the ships' capacity reduction due to amphibious loading) because you are always way over due to calculating number of ships required for one-day unload? Makes sense. And for cases where there is no shock attack, since the ratio is giving you a days-to-unload, so if <2 they should all unload in 2 days, and so on.

I should incorporate something to account for that, but I might express it differently. One of the problems is with larger ships when you really need/want to use all the assault shipping you have - the larger ships might not unload in one day unless they are under-loaded, especially if CD fire and such is chewing up ops points (air attacks, whatever).

What is column E, Grouping?

I don't recall seeing the '@' used that way before. Is it pretty universal or specific to the spreadsheet you are using? Is that Excel? I'm going to see if it works in LibreOffice. If so, it would simplify my code a tiny bit and make it less brittle if I can refer to the header text instead of the column number.

[witpqs]

Well, I found that the syntax for that in LibreOffice is different, and you have to have that option enabled. Since I want this to be useful to people without knowing what spreadsheet program they have, and in particular for technology novices who might not be so quick at making their own spreadsheet (let alone finding little settings to change!) I'll stick with referecing the column by letter.

[zuluhour]

Why is there no head scratching smiley???

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Why is there no head scratching smiley???

Scratch your head after you try this:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByVleYydeDVcQW5NVFc4V0g1Qkk&usp=sharing

There are four files there, you need three of them. Download the .exe and both .txt files. The .py file is optional, in case you want to see the source code.

One of the text files is a configuration file, the other is the documentation. Read that, and give things a try.

[richlove]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Thanks!

So, you don't bother calculating the amount of load needed (considering the ships' capacity reduction due to amphibious loading) because you are always way over due to calculating number of ships required for one-day unload? Makes sense. And for cases where there is no shock attack, since the ratio is giving you a days-to-unload, so if <2 they should all unload in 2 days, and so on.

Mostly correct. I think the ratio is backwards; if it's .5 to 1 it'll take 2 days to unload.
A nice side effect of loading this way is that you land a LOT of supplies w/ all that spare space.

I should incorporate something to account for that, but I might express it differently. One of the problems is with larger ships when you really need/want to use all the assault shipping you have - the larger ships might not unload in one day unless they are under-loaded, especially if CD fire and such is chewing up ops points (air attacks, whatever).

What is column E, Grouping?

Your ops points observation is a good one. Maybe you could adjust the 'unload per day' amount down to reflect the reduced time to unload in the face of air attack?

Grouping was just for me to help organize my operation. IIRC, I didn't have enough lift, so I had to send two waves (aka groups).

I don't recall seeing the '@' used that way before. Is it pretty universal or specific to the spreadsheet you are using? Is that Excel? I'm going to see if it works in LibreOffice. If so, it would simplify my code a tiny bit and make it less brittle if I can refer to the header text instead of the column number.

It's Excel, and it refers to the column of a defined table. IDK if there's a similar concept in LibreOffice.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: richlove

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Thanks!

So, you don't bother calculating the amount of load needed (considering the ships' capacity reduction due to amphibious loading) because you are always way over due to calculating number of ships required for one-day unload? Makes sense. And for cases where there is no shock attack, since the ratio is giving you a days-to-unload, so if <2 they should all unload in 2 days, and so on.

Mostly correct. I think the ratio is backwards; if it's .5 to 1 it'll take 2 days to unload.
Ah, right. If you flip it around it will directly give you "days to unload".
A nice side effect of loading this way is that you land a LOT of supplies w/ all that spare space.

I should incorporate something to account for that, but I might express it differently. One of the problems is with larger ships when you really need/want to use all the assault shipping you have - the larger ships might not unload in one day unless they are under-loaded, especially if CD fire and such is chewing up ops points (air attacks, whatever).

What is column E, Grouping?

Your ops points observation is a good one. Maybe you could adjust the 'unload per day' amount down to reflect the reduced time to unload in the face of air attack?
I wouldn't really know what guess to make. I just double-checked the manual and APA/AKA nominally unload 3,000 points per phase (manual erroneously says "turn") so even big ones 'should' unload all in one day (2 phases). But very often they do not even without air attacks, just shore fire. I haven't really paid attention to which ships wind up still unloading (at day's end) in what situations so I'll have to start watching that.

What I did do was make the percentage for the calculation be read in from the config text file, so a player can make their own decision or even change it for different situations.

Grouping was just for me to help organize my operation. IIRC, I didn't have enough lift, so I had to send two waves (aka groups).

I don't recall seeing the '@' used that way before. Is it pretty universal or specific to the spreadsheet you are using? Is that Excel? I'm going to see if it works in LibreOffice. If so, it would simplify my code a tiny bit and make it less brittle if I can refer to the header text instead of the column number.

It's Excel, and it refers to the column of a defined table. IDK if there's a similar concept in LibreOffice.
They do, haven't used it. I did find you can turn on a settings to automatically search for column headers. Then you just put the column header in single quotation marks, for example: 'Troop Load' * 1.3 and voila! Very nice, but I can't do something that might require someone to figure out settings on their spreadsheet, or is not a pretty universal markup. I'll just have to stick with the column letters. But in any spreadsheets I make by hand it will help. Thanks!

[witpqs]

Poking around a bit with recommending the minimum number of Attack transport type (APA, AKA, and equivalent) ships for a given unit to unload in one day. The problem is to not display the result in fractions I have to specify a function (ROUNDUP() in LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet) that will be different in different spreadsheet programs. Could be another item for the config file (that the user would set once).