Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

VR designs has been reinforced with designer Cameron Harris and the result is a revolutionary new operational war game 'Barbarossa' that plays like none other. It blends an advanced counter pushing engine with deep narrative, people management and in-depth semi-randomized decision systems.

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Emx77
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Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Emx77 »

I'm reading a lot of positive feedback about DC: Barbarossa here on forum. First, I would like to applaud Vic and Cameron for introducing really novel concepts into genre. However, there is one thing which turns me off from buying the game at current price tag - The Aesthetic of Map. It is really shame that very little effort went into improving such important aspect of the game over past five years. I'm spoiled with Ageod, WitE (especially with Jison map mod), Command Ops, Flashpoint Campaigns maps... (too name just few). Just look at map of incoming Hearts of Iron IV or one from Shenandoah Studio titles and you will get idea what is possible regarding wargame maps in 2015. Comparing to these, DC: Barbarossa map looks like kindergarten art project or title from two decades ago. I will dare to say that even first game in series (DC: WtP) has more appealing map then DC: B. Also, judging by gameplay videos on YouTube, scrolling is still far from smooth. I hope that VR Designs/Matrix will find a way to hire professional artist/designer in the following period, who will rework map graphics and improve UI (which is not bad, but it also is not last word of UI design). It seems we now have A class gameplay accompanied with B class UI and C class map.
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Queeg
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Queeg »

I like the UI. The map is workable.
Panzeh
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Panzeh »

I love the game but the map could certainly look better.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by rjh1971 »

Scrooling of the map is as smooth as it can it be, it really has no problems at all.
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Emx77
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Emx77 »

ORIGINAL: rjh1971

Scrooling of the map is as smooth as it can it be, it really has no problems at all.

My comment is based on this video (see 6:22 - 6:28 segment):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUViJBbwkI0

Although, I must admit, later it is scrolling smoothly. Maybe it is related with zoom level? I remember having similar jaggy scrolling experience with DC: WtP.
etsadler
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by etsadler »

Personally I despise 3D Maps. Visually distracts me from the game. Actual WWII maps, adapted for game use, would be my ideal. How does a fancy map make the game play better?

But, everyone likes what they like. Opinions are only my own.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by lancer »

Hi Emir,

I had a look at the video section you mentioned and the Cucumber bloke is using his arrow keys. Each time he taps them the map moves a certain amount. He's going tap, tap, tap.

Morse code for please send me more Vodka.

Scrolling isn't an issue with the mouse or with the arrow keys if you hold them down continually.

Cheers,
Cameron

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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by TheWombat_matrixforum »

I don't mind the map. It works. It won't win any prizes, but it's serviceable. The weird UI still takes getting used to, and this is my third of these games. Having to hit A or M rather than just click-select and click-attack or click-move still feels odd. But again, you get used to it.
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Tzar007
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Tzar007 »

Coming off the Color of the East map mod of Kiddytoto in Case Blue, I've got to agree the Barbarossa map feels a little bland and a throwback.

That being said,I'm pretty sure some modder can do a fantastic job to enhance the map.

The initial WITE map was pretty bland too and it got significantly enhanced by talented modders.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by GJK »

The issue with this game engine as far as a modding standpoint goes is it uses "tiled" graphics and a very limited set of them at that. At least earlier incarnations of this game did and by what I see here, this one uses the same tile set from several years ago. With the tiled images, you have repeated patterns over and over again for the entire map with little variety and since the same one graphic has to work in all instances, there's not a lot that can be done with them. But who knows, maybe somebody will come up with something. I was just gifted this game and am downloading it now. I expect superb gameplay with so-so graphics.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by governato »

one option is to include an added graphic layer with a 'painted' map, as WITE or Flashpoint Campaigns. For both games the now 'standard' maps were initially introduced as mods.

A 'good looking' map really improves the immersion factor.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by zakblood »

eye candy doesn't add to playability, but can distract 1 point from taste, so a minor issue if that, i'm either way, as i like good looking things, but will settle for playability over it any day as it plays very well, so if it does or doesn't get modded i'm ok with it.

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Phoenix100
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Phoenix100 »

The map is very unrealistic, just as EA says. Puts me off too. Don't need anything like a 3d map - but it would be good to have a map with more detail and variation, like the real world. It's important for a lot of people, for immersion, and those people may not buy until the map looks better, I think. So it would be good for the devs to consider this, I think.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Remmes »

ORIGINAL: phoenix

The map is very unrealistic, just as EA says. Puts me off too. Don't need anything like a 3d map - but it would be good to have a map with more detail and variation, like the real world. It's important for a lot of people, for immersion, and those people may not buy until the map looks better, I think. So it would be good for the devs to consider this, I think.

Hi Peter!

Some valid points here. I never seriously looked at the two previous DC games because I was put off by the way map looked, the cartoony looking soldiers and vehicles and the UI. My money went to WITE and WITW; those games looked much more attractive.

Now having bought DC:B I can only say that it is a shame that I missed out on the earlier DC installments. WITE and WITW are monumental games, but playing them sometimes feels like a chore actually. DC:B is much easier to get into, much quicker and ultimately -for me- more fun.

Although the map and UI (M & A keys) are functional enough for the game, I think DC:B could attract more sales wit an enhanced look, especially when it will be released on Steam somewhere in the future. Look at what the great mapmod for WITE by Jison did. Did it make it a different game? No. Did it make the game more appealing to look at: most definitely. Eye candy can be a decisive factor in purchase decisions......

No rant here by the way, just my two cents. Happy with the game, but it could be better.



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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Phoenix100 »

Hey Ramses. Thanks. If you recommend it that's certainly a plus - thanks for the info. I wonder how well the H2H works, how easy it is to get games. That might clinch it for me.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Templer_12 »

ORIGINAL: Ramses

ORIGINAL: phoenix

The map is very unrealistic, just as EA says. Puts me off too. Don't need anything like a 3d map - but it would be good to have a map with more detail and variation, like the real world. It's important for a lot of people, for immersion, and those people may not buy until the map looks better, I think. So it would be good for the devs to consider this, I think.

Hi Peter!

Some valid points here. I never seriously looked at the two previous DC games because I was put off by the way map looked, the cartoony looking soldiers and vehicles and the UI. My money went to WITE and WITW; those games looked much more attractive.

Now having bought DC:B I can only say that it is a shame that I missed out on the earlier DC installments. WITE and WITW are monumental games, but playing them sometimes feels like a chore actually. DC:B is much easier to get into, much quicker and ultimately -for me- more fun.

Although the map and UI (M & A keys) are functional enough for the game, I think DC:B could attract more sales wit an enhanced look, especially when it will be released on Steam somewhere in the future. Look at what the great mapmod for WITE by Jison did. Did it make it a different game? No. Did it make the game more appealing to look at: most definitely. Eye candy can be a decisive factor in purchase decisions......

No rant here by the way, just my two cents. Happy with the game, but it could be better.



I have very similar experiences.
Also I have given my money for WITE quickly. I like the map, I like the UI, I love the general, crystal clear appearance, and I like the music.

If see under the hood, it‘s a gigantic database, but no innovation, little what I enjoy.
WITE and WITW not even using concentric attacks, go figure!!!
Man, I wish I had spent no money for this.

Also I find the Decisive Campaigns series fulfilling, it just brings a lot more fun and joy.

You're worried about to increase sales of Decisive Campaigns?
I would imagine, if multiple users would make honest statements like you did, that would be a big step forward.

Ah yes, the Decisive Campaigns maps [:D]
Yes, they could be better, "better, more beautiful" whatever that mean.
However, the maps could be worse! [;)]
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budd
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by budd »

Game play is king, so its not going to keep me from buying but i do like a nice looking map[:D].I am surprised that its still using basically the same map look since the first DC game. I think it's a disservice to Vic's games, hey Matrix/Slitherine kick up a graphics guy for Vic/Cameron.
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etsadler
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by etsadler »

ORIGINAL: governato
A 'good looking' map really improves the immersion factor.

How is a map that is unlike anything of the times immersive?

I'm all about immersion, which is why I eschew a modern "good looking" map and would greatly welcome a map that looks like the maps the generals would have used at the time. What could be more immersive than that?
PzKw43
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by PzKw43 »

The map is functional but looks needs to be improved. The hex grid is to dark. It's 1941 but the train icon is a steam engine from the 1800's.

The interface is a mess. Unit info is located at the bottom, terrain info at the top. It needs to be consolidated on the left. Studies have shown the most important info should be located in the upper left hand corner of a screen.

The PDF manual has a distracting background graphic on every page. I hope the printed manual doesn't have this. If so I wasted my money on the boxed version. This is graphics design 101.

Hopefully Vic will improve the map, redesign the interface to modern standards and stop using background graphics on the manual.

Most buyers are influenced by the look of a game so it's important that these issues be addressed so the user base can be increased for the DC series.
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RE: Unsatisfactory Aesthetic of the Map

Post by Delaware »

I agree the map is very 1997 looking. It's the one negative in a great package. Not looking for photorealistic map but something more "modern" in its graphical presentation. It looks very "VGA" back from the days of yore. Someone please mod.
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