Any changes to the event editor?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I have gotten that message even when using the correct equipment file. I use a little gimmick to check that I am using the correct equipment file when working with a scenario. The people playing the scenario can also check to see if they are using the correct equipment file. Just take one of the Spare slots and put something in it that obviously does not belong. You could even name the piece of equipment CHECK. Then when you start the scenario in the editor or as a player and it gives you that message you simply look at the replacement list. If CHECK is there you are doing fine. If not, something is definitely wrong. You could even name the piece of equipment after the scenario.

BTW, that message needs to be modified so it gives you the name of the equipment file that is being loaded. Instead of the cryptic, 'using the wrong eqp file', it should say something like, 'using eqp file <NAME OF SCENARIO>'.

Using CHECK is a good idea, I like that. Um......I've found that just loading the scenario into the editor and saving it somehow resets
the matching of the equipment file with the scenario and makes the message go away when you load it into TOAW.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Attempting to modify events in an existing scenario using the in-game editor, changed some existing event parameters to do with shock effects. On starting the modified scenario, get a message 'using the wrong .eqp file'.[&:]

On screen the units are now of the wrong scale, regiment size instead of corps and division in the original scenario.

What went wrong ?

When you modified the scenario, did you change the scenario name ? If you did, did you check the graphics folder to see if there is a scenario specific graphics folder, and if there is did you create a new one for your modified scenario ?

The editor can not change divisions and corps into regiments, so this makes no sense. Could you explain a little further, or post a screen shot ?

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Attempting to modify events in an existing scenario using the in-game editor, changed some existing event parameters to do with shock effects. On starting the modified scenario, get a message 'using the wrong .eqp file'.[&:]

On screen the units are now of the wrong scale, regiment size instead of corps and division in the original scenario.

What went wrong ?

When you modified the scenario, did you change the scenario name ? If you did, did you check the graphics folder to see if there is a scenario specific graphics folder, and if there is did you create a new one for your modified scenario ?

The editor can not change divisions and corps into regiments, so this makes no sense. Could you explain a little further, or post a screen shot ?

This is the screen, with message on start-up about the .eqp file and the units for this scenario (Soviet Union 1941) should be divisions and corps. I changed some events, then saved under a new scenario name, what did I miss. The event change seems to have worked and the modified scenario plays OK, just wrong unit scale.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

This is the screen, with message on start-up about the .eqp file and the units for this scenario (Soviet Union 1941) should be divisions and corps. I changed some events, then saved under a new scenario name, what did I miss. The event change seems to have worked and the modified scenario plays OK, just wrong unit scale.

Well, that one's mine so I should know. [:)]

The original has its own scenario-specific sub-folder in the graphics folder. That folder contained both an equipment mod and a number of graphical mods - including a mod to the Numbers.png that shifts the unit size symbols to accommodate Army Group and Theater unit sizes.

Clearly, you are no longer accessing those files since you didn't make copies into a scenario-specific folder of your own. That accounts for the equipment file error report and the change in the unit size display.

[Rasputitsa]

Well, that one's mine so I should know.

The original has its own scenario-specific sub-folder in the graphics folder. That folder contained both an equipment mod and a number of graphical mods - including a mod to the Numbers.png that shifts the unit size symbols to accommodate Army Group and Theater unit sizes.

Clearly, you are no longer accessing those files since you didn't make copies into a scenario-specific folder of your own. That accounts for the equipment file error report and the change in the unit size display.

Congratulations on a nice scenario, I think that unless you want to dedicate your whole life playing, then the Eastern Front is best played at corps level.

Thanks, situation returned to correct images and .eqp file, another step in the learning process, but rewarding.[:)]

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Let's see if I understand. The vast majority of you think the event engine is fine and doesn't need to be remade, right? Because most of what I see are people posting about how to make a blind dog jump through a hoop instead of getting a dog that can see.

The event engine is from another millenia and should be replaced. If too lazy about it you(I mean whoever is working on it), just go check some paradox game and copy their system.

[sPzAbt653]

go check some paradox game and copy their system.

I'm not working on it, but I am interested in possible improvements. The above quote is too vague, though. I googled for 'some paradox game' and looked for examples of an event editor but couldn't come up with anything. Could you provide something more specific ?

[Lobster]

Ditto. None of my Paradox games have editors of any kind.

[Olorin]

I think the entire editor could use some love in the navigation department.
A scroll up/down through the various lists (OOB, events) would be immensely helpful.
A search function would be a dream come true.

I also find the transition from deployment mode to the force editor quite annoying. It would be great if the unit you have selected in deployment mode be retained when you switch to force editing, instead of having to scroll all the way from the top.

[berto]

If the new-and-improved event editor does not support a wide variety of weather effects -- mud, snow, monsoon, typhoon, severe thunderstorms, flash floods, etc. -- on movement, combat, supply, and so on implemented in a direct and straightforward way; if such effects need to be faked by kludges -- I will consider it a severe disappointment, a major missed opportunity, unworthy of a 4.0 effort.

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

go check some paradox game and copy their system.

I'm not working on it, but I am interested in possible improvements. The above quote is too vague, though. I googled for 'some paradox game' and looked for examples of an event editor but couldn't come up with anything. Could you provide something more specific ?

Ah, I thought everyone was familiar with their titles. Hearts of Iron, Europa universalis, etc. Anyways, the event files are simple text files, that follow simple syntaxes. I am not a programmer, but I presume these are built into the game. Each event has an identifier, and under it the list of conditions when it will run, and the effects it will have. In this way the game will essentially run a set of commands once certain conditions are met. This could be something as simple as a certain turn or turn range(in TOAW, paradox games are pauseable real time), or a player decision, another event, a flag, control of hexes(paradox usually uses a province system in comparison), or anything you can build in there I guess. Effects are then, well again whatever you can figure out there with simple commands.

Read this for example:
http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Structure_of_events

This would make events a light year more useful in TOAW. And I would prefer it over the event editor itself...dunno how hard it would be to include. If you for example make it possible to alter equipment reinforcement factors through this, some brave or foolish soul might at some point figure how to include economy/production in the game.

EDIT:
I mean the whole event engine as in how the events work and so on. The actual tool is too cumbersome to use, and I don't know if it can even be improved.

[Lobster]

Ah right. I don't know that you can even call it an event editor because it isn't an editor. It is scripting language more than anything else. It would take extensive work to incorporate something like this into TOAW. Many games use this, not only paradox games. I've messed around with the scripts in HoI3 just to see how different things would change the course of the war.

[larryfulkerson]

I've messed around with the scripts in HoI3 just to see how different things would change the course of the war.

I for one would be curious to hear your war stories about your experiences with the scripting language. What worked and what
didn't and any workarounds you needed and what success you had, etc. Please.

[sPzAbt653]

Anyways, the event files are simple text files ... Read this for example: ...

As shown in post #9 of this thread, you can edit TOAW event files in xml if that is what you prefer.

There may be a few different choices for events in those games as compared to the choices in TOAW, but many player suggestions have been added to TOAW's event list over the years [if its beneficial and worth the coding time].

All the triggers you mention are available in TOAW, so I don't see what the issue is there. And when you say Paradox uses 'simple commands', I looked at the link you provided, and to me TOAW is far more simple than that. Having to learn all the commands and character functions ? Simpler than activating an event by clicking on a button that says 'turn' or 'event activated' as we do in TOAW ? I don't see it.

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Anyways, the event files are simple text files ... Read this for example: ...

As shown in post #9 of this thread, you can edit TOAW event files in xml if that is what you prefer.

There may be a few different choices for events in those games as compared to the choices in TOAW, but many player suggestions have been added to TOAW's event list over the years [if its beneficial and worth the coding time].

All the triggers you mention are available in TOAW, so I don't see what the issue is there. And when you say Paradox uses 'simple commands', I looked at the link you provided, and to me TOAW is far more simple than that. Having to learn all the commands and character functions ? Simpler than activating an event by clicking on a button that says 'turn' or 'event activated' as we do in TOAW ? I don't see it.

Erm, yeah, It is simpler in TOAW, but the functionality is not. The event engine in TOAW is very limited. I guess what I was after was that if you want to build a complex chain of events, it is way simpler to do in a scripting language than it is with the Event Engine. That is for example, how do you use multiple triggers? Ie. if you want the game to end when Stalingrad, Leningrad and Moscow are captured? Or any two of these? With a proper engine you could do it in one event. Right now it's a nightmare...for a game that is very in-depth the event system is just scratching the surface.

As for triggers, commands and the actual complexity of scripting; it is not. I did it with their very first title and I was like 13 or 15 or something then. So I guess the tolls should be more complex in order to make it simpler? Or easier? Certainly an upgrade is needed and this kind of event handling I think would be much better than any other alternative I know of.

Lot's of games use scripting, yes, I gave Paradox as an example I am familiar with and one that handles it well. I don't have any examples as I don't have TOAW installed on my current computer.

But since TOAW 4 is more like an update/upgrade/small overhaul it is probably too much work to change the design to allow scripting. Still I believe it would be a major improvement. And yes, I want it so I can add production to FitE.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Karri


But since TOAW 4 is more like an update/upgrade/small overhaul it is probably too much work to change the design to allow scripting. Still I believe it would be a major improvement. And yes, I want it so I can add production to FitE.

Many of us have been asking for a more simple Event Editor along with some other things like an easier to use Force Editor. I will be dead before any of that happens. [:D]

[sPzAbt653]

Ie. if you want the game to end when Stalingrad, Leningrad and Moscow are captured? Or any two of these? With a proper engine you could do it in one event.

Ah, I see ... and agree. The only other thing I play are the old V4V games. No editor there, but when I think about how they did stuff, I realize that they only had to script an event for that scenario, so that would make it easier. As I've never scripted anything, I'm not sure what the flexibility is. I might think that if you were editing a paradox game, you would be restricted to the parameters of that game, while TOAW has to leave the door open for any possibility. I have no programming experience, so I am only guessing.

Also, in the TOAW IV announcement, there was no mention of any changes to the Event Editor, and this thread garnered no response along those lines, so I suppose we can wait to see what TOAW V brings [;)]

[berto]

<bump>

ORIGINAL: berto

If the new-and-improved event editor does not support a wide variety of weather effects -- mud, snow, monsoon, typhoon, severe thunderstorms, flash floods, etc. -- on movement, combat, supply, and so on implemented in a direct and straightforward way; if such effects need to be faked by kludges -- I will consider it a severe disappointment, a major missed opportunity, unworthy of a 4.0 effort.

Now that you can reveal details, any news about this?

[r6kunz]

ORIGINAL: berto


If the new-and-improved event editor does not support a wide variety of weather effects -- mud, snow, monsoon, typhoon, severe thunderstorms, flash floods, etc. -- on movement, combat, supply, and so on implemented in a direct and straightforward way; if such effects need to be faked by kludges -- I will consider it a severe disappointment, a major missed opportunity, unworthy of a 4.0 effort.

Good suggestions.

I was not sure what a kludge is - I had to look it up- but this new one may help... Movement Bias is now a variable Event. For example Event 1 News= Raspitutis begins. Event 2 Movement Bias 2= 80%, Event 3 Supply -1 = 5, Event 5 Shock 1= etc., then Event 6= cancel Event 1. Not bad. I think the variable Movement Bias will really helps here.

I suppose someday we could have: Event 1 Raspitutis Begins. (which would cause problems with movement, supply combat efficiency, etc.) but who would agree on what effects?

[berto]

Sounds promising. Should be good.