The Legend of Nemo

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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John 3rd
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by John 3rd »

I would, respectfully, withdraw myself from that list. That I am demented and CRAZY, there is no doubt but there are many, many players who far surpass myself.

Thanks Dan for the thought.

Appreciate and understand your definition of legend when applying it to Nemo and others. They have left a mark on the game that endures far beyond them.
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Nemo121
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Nemo121 »

I logged back in with the release of Flashpoint Reforger and imagine my surprise to see this thread. It hasn't quite deteriorated into a sump of bile vitriol quite yet so I'll take a stab at some of the comments and to clarify some mis-rememberings.

1. I'm a psychiatrist, for now.

2. I wouldn't say I consulted for any militaries. I do know quite a few operators and I have been involved, at times, in some training of US officers and elsewhere. Whenever I did more than just discuss issues with them it was usually to command/roleplay OPFOR - specifically because of either the fact that I would have a formed opinion on how Triandafilov would stack up against Tukhachevsky and why Frunze was an also-ran or my asymmetric experience. I also do treat military vets suffering from PTSD after combat or peacekeeping tours including UK and American veterans. I'm happy to do whatever I can to help them cope with their lives after their tours as they are often truly shattered by their experiences and they and their families are oft-forgotten collateral damage. Helping them is something I take pride in ( and something that being able to talk their lingo ( it isn't all triandafilov, operational manoeuvre groups etc, ) even whilst acknowledging there's a gulf in lived experience very much helps them to open up to).

3. Forget the rest, Triandafilov is best - although, obviously, some modifications need to be allowed for technical-tactical innovations which he preceded.

4. My interest was always on the strategic and national-policy level in terms of gameplay and in maximising the challenge to myself on a personal level. That is why I developed a penchant for taking on games that others resigned in order to explore the unexplored and, often, un-imagined paths to parity or superiority. Once this task was completed I had achieved MY task in the game.... I am happy for that to be recorded as a win, a draw or a loss.

5. Its recording and/or attribution is an irrelevance to me. But, yes, within the context of "the game" I definitely didn't seek to "win" or pursue it to "victory". I would view such a victory as pyrrhic as chasing said "victory" would come only at the cost of time I could have utilised to explore other interesting strategic situations/desperate positions and other areas of interest. Others will view this from their context and ascribe motivations - these will say less about what I did and why then about what they wish to think and what they think in and of themselves. With that said, everyone's welcome to their opinion.

6. Why did I stop coming round? Well, it wasn't enjoyable anymore. Having to run the gauntlet of FatR etc who appointed himself as paranoid judge, pre-deterministic jury and enraged hangman was simply not an intelligent or enjoyable way to spend my day. That many in the "community" egged him on whilst tolerating all sorts of internicine squabbling and bad behaviour elsewhere simply made any decision easier.

7. John3rd... I can honestly say I have no recollection of what you describe as a turning point. I can say with certainty it wasn't. The turning points were, respectively, your jailing for an offence I find abhorrent and the fact that you egged FatR on in being judge, jury and executioner - something I think no one person should be. As to any discussions I had with others. Interestingly many of your opponents came to me privately commenting about you also. I had the decency to keep it private instead of spewing it forth publicly at every opportunity, as is your wont. As to the Gettybsurg game... You used unit stacking rules, I used unit stacking rules. When I used them to beat you you became mortally offended. You weren't nearly so offended when you were, initially, using them to crush me. Turn-around IS fair game.

8. mind_messing... You are most avowedly welcome to your opinion. I can certainly see why it would seem valid to you. I draw the line differently and as I respect your view and opinion I hope you can respect my right to draw the line in a different place.

9. I had two games end early due to fractiousness. FatRs was one - which was a game I should never have taken on given what he'd shown of his character to me previously. Live and learn. This game was an example when I allowed personal feelings to extend outside of the game construct - when I did it it was just as much of an error as when opponents allowed it to happen. It was also needlessly emotionally exhausting. To quote that timeless sage Taylor Swift, "Haters gonna hate". I'd much rather focus on getting down with some sick fat beats than getting enmeshed with hating haters going forward [;)]. The other was one of my first games in which I found the teleporting bug too much to handle. I shouldn't have made as big an issue of that as I did at the time. live and learn.

10. Many who played me were "frustrated" at times. I would suggest that the fact that they experienced strong psychological reactions to an impersonal row of 0s and 1s causing pixels to glow various hues on their computer screen is a fundamentally irrational, but interesting, factoid. Some may suggest that the very fact that they became so frustrated over something so fundamentally meaningless and irrelevant is proof that "playing the man" worked. That that frustration spilled over from the game into the real world may, some would suggest, reflect the fact that the meta-game I always tried to play was working and that they were falling for it, substituting cold calculation with frustration and extra-game emotions and motivations --- all of which served to detract from their play and allow me to achieve the task I had set myself ( as opposed to victory ) within the construct that is the game of AE. It is somewhat disappointing to me that afterward this meta-game coloured some of their later interactions. I always viewed the meta-game and the transference and counter-transference that occurred within the game construct as being contained within that context. Others didn't hold that boundary and that had consequences.... Only twice did I breach that boundary myself and those were the two games which I ended on bad terms with my opponents. All other games I, personally, felt no animus towards my opponents and it is regretful that the meta-game within the construct spilled over for some of them.

11. Alfred ( who despite his lack of posted AARs should be rated amongst the acme of players ) mentions operational pre-planning. I'd endorse this. If I accepted a challenge from a player I would read EVERY SINGLE post they ever wrote on the forums ( and elsewhere ) before ever beginning my planning. I have, on occasion, read more than 4,000 posts here and elsewhere, googled etc in forming an assessment of my opponent. Only when that was done and I knew precisely how they would lose ( THIS is a crucial aspect --- it wasn't how I would win, it NEVER was about how I would win, it was always simply about allowing them to become embroiled in a situation they would find untenable and, inevitably, worsen even as they fought, in their mind, to improve the situation ) would I begin crafting a plan designed to present them with a series of situations in which they would make predictable decisions, each, inevitably, leading to a further diminution in resources and deterioration in their situation. Obviously things don't always go to plan once you hit GO but the pre-planning research and assessment is and was crucial.

12. mind_messing. Hmm, you certainly seem to have a view on things. I would suggest that many years ago I was banned from the BTS forum for disagreeing with censorship by the forum admins. Their response was to ban me, rather making my point for me. As to here... I left when I no longer enjoyed being in the space. You may view that as a bad cloud, I don't. Then again we see things not as they are but as we are and as we wish them to be.

13. 1EyedJacks... Hi, nothing personal in anything in the AAR I assure you. Simply achieving the task I'd set myself within the construct of the game. Some level of upset within the construct was, obviously, envisioned and for that amount I'll say that I view it as part of the game and not personal and don't view an apology as needed ( I note you don't ask for one )... For any upset beyond that though I do apologise. That would never have been or be my intent and if it upset you beyond the game construct then I regret that.

14. Kull. I've been around, sometimes as something similar, sometimes as someone or something very different. Ai is very interesting and I've dabbled with it both personally and commercially.

15. Hi Damian ;-). Sorry for being AWOL. lots of shit on. If you would like feel free to drop me an email - same old address.

16. As re: minutiae.... God no. Strategy means the minutiae take care of themselves. The battle should only ever be the inevitable playing out of a foregone strategic conclusion ( when things go perfectly of course - as is rarely their wont). Plus, you know, minutiae take so much time and there's so many other interesting things to do in the short period of time we've got on this ball of dirt.


As to the basic gestalt....
This place has good and bad people. The good are a pleasure to chat with, the bad are a pleasure to avoid and a really needless pain in the neck e.g. John3rd could just have avoided this thread and kept his opinions to himself instead there's posting... That sort of needless commentary from community members has really soured this place and isn't necessary. Some people don't like eachother, that's life. Let it lie. My policy near the end was simply not to reply to John, FatR and a few others as it wasn't worth it. They got to keep doing what they wanted without me commenting, they, unfortunately, didnt and haven't extended me the same courtesy.

Was or am I a legend? A legend is a construct. Most of what is in this thread IS legend. As with all constructs it bears little semblance to reality and says much more about the mindsets of some people and the narrative they wish to promulgate than the real person involved or the real issues involved. Is there a legend about Nemo121? Yes. Am I a legend? No, because the legend that has been constructed bears little resemblance to me or what I have done.

I am a person who played a game. Sometimes it went well, sometimes it didn't. I enjoyed most of the games, didn't enjoy them all. I think many of my opponents enjoyed their games with me, some didn't. I enjoyed chatting to intelligent people with interesting views ( whether I agreed with them or not ) but really disliked interacting with others who chose to be personal about things.

I wasn't perfect but neither am I the daemon from Laecadamon that others seem to still need me to be --- in order to meet their own narrative and psychological needs. Unfortunately since being the external locus of responsibility into which they could project all of their issues wasn't and isn't an enjoyable experience I decided to be elsewhere that was more enjoyable, a decision I haven't and don't regret.

In truth, I wish you all here the best but as a community you need to be very careful about the level of discourse to which you let things sink. Many good people don't post here anymore because they also don't enjoy being enmeshed in the narrative of others.

I'll come back over the weekend if anyone has any questions but after Sunday I probably won't be logging in again for a few more years.


P.s. Alfred, Canoerebel ( honestly I can't remember whatever incidents you are alluding to - I doubt they bothered me as much as you think if I can't even remember them ) I'd definitely consider playing you if I ever played AE again. I doubt I will but there's always a chance...
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
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Lowpe
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
I also do treat military vets suffering from PTSD after combat or peacekeeping tours including UK and American veterans. I'm happy to do whatever I can to help them cope with their lives after their tours as they are often truly shattered by their experiences and they and their families are oft-forgotten collateral damage. Helping them is something I take pride in ( and something that being able to talk their lingo ( it isn't all triandafilov, operational manoeuvre groups etc, ) even whilst acknowledging there's a gulf in lived experience very much helps them to open up to).

Having two sons active duty military...many thanks.[&o]
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Canoerebel
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Canoerebel »

Hmm. With every good intention to celebrate the Forum as a diverse and interesting community, I have opened a pandora's box.

Nemo, I'm glad to see you back, even if it's just briefly. I regret the acrimony that some directed you way.

I likewise regret several of your comments, which cross the line of decorum.

I'd delete this Thread if I could. My apologies to all.

Best wishes to all Forumites.

P.S. Nemo, watch out for a match with Chickenboy. With the spectacular number of posts he's made through the years, you'd have your hands full trying to read each one of them. :)

"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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Encircled
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Encircled »

I remember not being able to understand about 50% of what Nemo posted.

I'm taking pride in the fact the percentage hasn't dropped any further!
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by dave sindel »

Canoerebel, I don't think you should regret starting the thread, nor do I believe you owe any sort of apology. I believe your motives were pure.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by mind_messing »

8. mind_messing... You are most avowedly welcome to your opinion. I can certainly see why it would seem valid to you. I draw the line differently and as I respect your view and opinion I hope you can respect my right to draw the line in a different place.

12. mind_messing. Hmm, you certainly seem to have a view on things. I would suggest that many years ago I was banned from the BTS forum for disagreeing with censorship by the forum admins. Their response was to ban me, rather making my point for me. As to here... I left when I no longer enjoyed being in the space. You may view that as a bad cloud, I don't. Then again we see things not as they are but as we are and as we wish them to be.

Regarding #8, there's quite a clear line in the game as far as "winning" goes. It's a screen that has "Allied/Japanese Major/Minor victory" on it, or it says "Draw". It's perfectly fine to disregard that line, but I think you lose more than you gain, especially on the Japanese side. It's not inconceviable for you to beat your opponent and "win" the war, but still "lose" the game.

As to #12, I mentioned it merely as I stumbled across it searching through your old posts.

As a side note, I read the second part of your article in the June/July 2005 edition of the Irish Psychiatrist. Any idea where I can get the first and second parts? Publication paywalls aren't an issue, my university credentials should get me past them. Feel free to send via PM if you don't want it plastered all over the forums. You're not the only one who does extensive reading on prospective opponents :) Though in my case it's more professional interest (BA Psych Hons atm)
Was or am I a legend? A legend is a construct. Most of what is in this thread IS legend. As with all constructs it bears little semblance to reality and says much more about the mindsets of some people and the narrative they wish to promulgate than the real person involved or the real issues involved. Is there a legend about Nemo121? Yes. Am I a legend? No, because the legend that has been constructed bears little resemblance to me or what I have done.

This, I think, is the key point that people need to take away from this thread. Like Kirk in the Kobayashi Maru, Nemo built a reputation on the forums and used it, along with diligent planning, to good effect.
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John 3rd
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by John 3rd »

Dan: Do not apologize or feel bad whatsoever. You had good and clear intentions. The Post above simply reinforced all points made previously.

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Wirraway_Ace »

Just coming back to the forum after a couple of years away. I am starting a new PBEM campaign game and wanted to refresh my ideas on strategy. Step number 1 was to go back a read posts by Nemo and PzB.

I was always a bit puzzled by the claim that Nemo was observed reading his opponents AAR. That Nemo would have been logged in as himself while doing this stuck me as a odd.
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Yaab
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Yaab »

Can't we have a crossover? Nemo vs Pelton in, I don't know, chess? AGEOD's American Civil War?
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I have somewhat of a more jaded view of Nemo as a player.

Nemo never fought a campaign game right through from start to finish (at least one that I've seen AAR'd). If I recall correctly, he liked his scenarios a lot more. Nothing wrong with that, but there's a lot you miss out on if you don't play the game from Dec 7th onward.

It's fine to post long-winded discussion on the application of military theories to the game, it's another to get a campaign game from Dec 7th to a conclusion. As for the accusations of cheating, I don't know enough to comment.

FWIW, my definition of a "good player" is someone who can either beat Japan before the historical surrender date as the Allies or postpone the Japanese collapse till after the historical surrender date, against an opponent of equal skill.

The "best players" are those that can do both.


This is rather late to post, but being "jaded" with something means you really like it or are addicted to it but have had far too much of it for your own good. Is that what you meant?

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Grfin Zeppelin »

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

Just coming back to the forum after a couple of years away. I am starting a new PBEM campaign game and wanted to refresh my ideas on strategy. Step number 1 was to go back a read posts by Nemo and PzB.

I was always a bit puzzled by the claim that Nemo was observed reading his opponents AAR. That Nemo would have been logged in as himself while doing this stuck me as a odd.
Thats what I thought too but I stayed the hell out of this drama.

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Gandalf »

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Can't we have a crossover? Nemo vs Pelton in, I don't know, chess? AGEOD's American Civil War?

Which one, ACW or CWII?
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Korvar »

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


Thats what I thought too but I stayed the hell out of this drama.


All this was way before my time on this forum, so I won't comment on any of the circumstances surrounding Nemo's departure. From the little I've read regarding him as a player, he obviously had a deep strategic background. I would have liked the opportunity to discuss the finer points of strategy with him.

That being said, it's good to see the forum hasn't lost its 'Unicorn' (meant only as a compliment). [:)]
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Big B »

I remember him posting often in years gone by, clearly intelligent - can't say I know the least thing about him.

EDIT: Honestly - doesn't sound charming or inviting.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Anachro »

I would love to play a PBEM against him...too bad.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Canoerebel »

98% chance Nemo has or will read the latest posts in this necro-thread.

He got cross-ways with some of the Forum and left (or they got cross-ways with him). Many forumites didn't know what was going on, some knew a little but not enough to form opinions, and a handful had enough information to form definite opinions one way or the other. I was one of those with just enough info to leave me confused as to how good and smart men ended up cross-ways. It happens. Especially on the internet

Nemo was a memorable member of the community who contributed alot of insight. If I was in a tight spot somewhere, sometime, I'd like to have him on my side.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

98% chance Nemo has or will read the latest posts in this necro-thread.

He got cross-ways with some of the Forum and left (or they got cross-ways with him). Many forumites didn't know what was going on, some knew a little but not enough to form opinions, and a handful had enough information to form definite opinions one way or the other. I was one of those with just enough info to leave me confused as to how good and smart men ended up cross-ways. It happens. Especially on the internet

Nemo was a memorable member of the community who contributed alot of insight. If I was in a tight spot somewhere, sometime, I'd like to have him on my side.

Yeah, I was hoping he would settle his differences and continue teaching us about deep war and all those concepts that I hadn't quite grasped yet. Watching his AARs was a different experience - he was very calculating in the way he would sacrifice major warships for strategic advantage, seeing the gain when most of us could not! A humbling experience for me at least! [&o]
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by modrow »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nemo was a memorable member of the community who contributed alot of insight. If I was in a tight spot somewhere, sometime, I'd like to have him on my side.

Yeah, I was hoping he would settle his differences and continue teaching us about deep war and all those concepts that I hadn't quite grasped yet. Watching his AARs was a different experience - he was very calculating in the way he would sacrifice major warships for strategic advantage, seeing the gain when most of us could not! A humbling experience for me at least! [&o]

+1 to both
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by LoBaron »

Hey Nemo! Long time no see! Great to see you well and ticking!
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