News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

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Footslogger
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News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Footslogger »

Here is the article. I haven't read it yet.

I was wondering if this is normal for those who have served onboard carriers?

http://www.inquisitr.com/2544509/uss-ro ... cials-say/

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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by spence »

The only question of any significance is: Did the Chinese sub get within targeting range of the carrier before it was detected. In a war a detected submarine is a dead submarine. Anybody, even a motorboat with a slingshot, can "stalk" a CVN for 12 hours if the other side can't kill it.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by wdolson »

I believe twice in her career the USS Enterprise (USN) ran over Russian subs that got too close.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Lawless1 »

As a former Quartermaster on an 637 class SSN one of our task was to trail the Russian subs that were tracking or CV fleet. On two different Mef cruise we followed several Russian fast attack and cruise missile boats. So I not surprise that as the PRC subs get better, that they will attempt to trail and track our fleet.

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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by HansBolter »

Their subs are still very noisy and we were tracking the sub just as much as the sub was tracking us.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by dr.hal »

In the two and a half years I was on the Constellation, we were never aware of or notified of a trailing "unknown" sub. One thing that is disturbing to me in the article is the reference to a diesel electric sub as "easy to recognize". If they are alluding to the fact that they give off a unique signature once detected, ok, however diesel electric subs are not easy to detect. They are very quite on batteries. However if this sub was trailing the CVN for any length of time (the article says "12 hours"), it would not be doing so on electric power alone if any speed was involved (15 knots), as it could not keep up with CVN battle-group. Kilos do not have closed cell fuel systems so it would have to run on diesel power via a snorkel and that would make its presence very known very quickly. It would be a more interesting article if more facts were given. I think any former bubbleheads might want to chime in here to give a different perspective if warranted.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by dr.hal »

Hans are you saying the Kilo class is "noisy" or when you say "their subs" are you referring to their nuk boats?
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

In the two and a half years I was on the Constellation, we were never aware of or notified of a trailing "unknown" sub. One thing that is disturbing to me in the article is the reference to a diesel electric sub as "easy to recognize". If they are alluding to the fact that they give off a unique signature once detected, ok, however diesel electric subs are not easy to detect. They are very quite on batteries. However if this sub was trailing the CVN for any length of time (the article says "12 hours"), it would not be doing so on electric power alone if any speed was involved (15 knots), as it could not keep up with CVN battle-group. Kilos do not have closed cell fuel systems so it would have to run on diesel power via a snorkel and that would make its presence very known very quickly. It would be a more interesting article if more facts were given. I think any former bubbleheads might want to chime in here to give a different perspective if warranted.

Not sure what the Chinese capabilities are but a Swedish Gotland class sub did penetrate a USN CV group several times during exercises. There are some cool pictures around on the USS Ronald Reagan taken by her target periscope.

Got the USN so worried they leased HMS Gotland for a full year to learn how to detect these smaller coastal subs. I would be very surprised if Chinese technology wasn´t at least up to par with Swedish equipment.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

They are not mentioning how long it remained undetected.

AFAIK, the first? and last time a Chinese submarine successfully stalked a carrier was in 2006. A "Song" class submarine was able to surface within firing range of USS Kitty Hawk before being detected

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... 539-3317r/#!

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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by dr.hal »

Yes Joc, exactly and that class of boat has a Stirling engine air-independent propulsion system. This is the air independent system that I was talking about that gives their boat extended range and higher speeds underwater that are not normally associated with "normal" diesel electric boats such as the Kilo class. As I said, while on batteries the Kilos are very quite, but once that power is depleted, all bets are off.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by crsutton »

I have no doubt that our subs do this as well. They don't call it international waters for nothing. Annoying but no surprise given the political tensions.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I have no doubt that our subs do this as well. They don't call it international waters for nothing. Annoying but no surprise given the political tensions.

Exactly. I think it's smarter to do this and not ballyhoo your military exploits to your state-run media for political gain either. Leave your (potential) opponents guessing about your capabilities rather than telling the world about it.

Any takers on how long the Liaoning lasts in the event of a shooting war? I imagine a handful of slavering Virginia or Seawolf-class captains chomping at the bit for an ADCAP shot.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Hans are you saying the Kilo class is "noisy" or when you say "their subs" are you referring to their nuk boats?

I'm talking about Chinese versions of the Kilo.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

In a shooting war, I bet China would do the same that the Argentinians did: just keep the carrier in port. Then at most it can be severely damaged by missile attacks, but as it is in shallow water, it won't sink

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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Lecivius »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I have no doubt that our subs do this as well. They don't call it international waters for nothing. Annoying but no surprise given the political tensions.

Exactly. I think it's smarter to do this and not ballyhoo your military exploits to your state-run media for political gain either. Leave your (potential) opponents guessing about your capabilities rather than telling the world about it.

Any takers on how long the Liaoning lasts in the event of a shooting war? I imagine a handful of slavering Virginia or Seawolf-class captains chomping at the bit for an ADCAP shot.

I have no doubt some USN bubblehead would ruin his day. My only question is before, or after a multi-billion dollar weapons platform goes . But I am no blue boy, I'll leave it to Those In The Know.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Rising-Sun »

I am really concern about that Chinese island they are making, military installation of course, right off near the Philippines and Borneo. Remember reading something that USA and other nations that China is allow to build, trade or even sell human body parts, but not to expansion. But this been going on four years or more. Those islands are in International Waters, just saw a post that China said "Hope to see you soon again" after that USS Lassen, a destroyer gotten close to that installation.

Got a feeling something is about to happen soon, if they do that again. Pretty sure the Chinese will put up a fight if USN try that again. So both sides better think twice before doing so, could end up in a war zone over there.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Yes Joc, exactly and that class of boat has a Stirling engine air-independent propulsion system. This is the air independent system that I was talking about that gives their boat extended range and higher speeds underwater that are not normally associated with "normal" diesel electric boats such as the Kilo class. As I said, while on batteries the Kilos are very quite, but once that power is depleted, all bets are off.

Wouldn´t be the first time reporters got the facts wrong! [:)] Doesn´t China have any Stirling powered subs? Or nuclear powered even?
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by Denniss »

German U 24 did it with Enterprise in 2001 - an old Diesel-powered boat, not the modern 212 class.
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Another type 206 closed in to a LA class sub multiple times without ever being detected.

On electric power these older boats are very dangerous, even more so the modern fuel cell boats with their high underwater speed.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by dr.hal »

Yes Joc, they have both nuclear attack boats and ballistic missile boats. The Yuan class diesel class (improved Kilo) is suspected of having an air independent fuel system...but we are not sure.
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RE: News about the USS Ronald Regan Starkled by a Chinese Sub?

Post by AW1Steve »

As far as submarines and carriers go , everyone who's ever done ASW knows the best place to hunt enemy submarines is immediately behind a CV. And generally behind a unfriendly submarine is a friendly one. And onboard and "cooperating land based aircraft" will train on such subs , track them and stand ready to kill them if necessary. It's all part of the game.

Speaking from the Airborne ASW side , most acoustic ASW operators are shown early in their career (if indeed not in class "A" school) a LOFAR gram of a CV wake. Ostensibly to teach them what a surface warship , especially a carrier looks like. The instructors will look carefully at their students to see which one will speak up and say , "hey , there looks like a ____ behind the CV!". As I said , they teach them young.



I've hunted several subs in which I've found "daisy change". For a while during the cold war it became the rule more than the exception. [:)]
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