GD1938 G22 "fast game"

[cpdeyoung]

The current games of GD1938, G19, G20, G21 are running very slowly with turns sitting in Dropbox for a week or more.

I would like to propose another fast game, where each player will try and do their turn the day it hits Dropbox. Game 12 was a "fast game" and it went well.

Gary Gardner will be joining this game. He is a skilled player who has looked carefully at the game, but only played it in testing mode.

If you join this game please accept the following house rules :
1. The Soviet Union may not ally with any Axis nation (GR, IT, JP). Game balance issues, and historically unlikely.

2. Allies may not enter another allied country without permission, unless forced to retreat there by combat. This will prevent an exploit like my taking the ports of Persia in G20. If the ally gives permission then the terms of the permission must be honored. If you are allowed in Munich, don't head for Berlin. If you are forced in by a combat result you must leave ASAP unless the owner gives shelter.

3. Do not attack a country unless an opposing player will be defending it. This must be observed in spirit as well as the letter. If the defender cannot be counted upon to put up a vigorous defense then don't make the intrusion. If the war is "phony" then don't allow it. Both attacker and defender should make a good fight of it.

We will play with the latest version (v.2.21r) so Germany should be aware the minor nations will be tougher than before. It is January 1938 so each nation can take some extra months to prepare for a war which did not actually come till September 1939.

We will play with allied unit sharing but without the too revealing shared recon.

To facilitate the speed issue a four or five player game is sought. GR-IT, FR-GB, USSR, US-CH, JP.(5) or GR-IT-JP, FR-GB, US-CH, USSR.(4).

Chuck

[cpdeyoung]

Gary has asked for the USA-China, and this is a good choice for a new player. He has some experience with China.

USA-China - Gary Gardner.
USSR - Chuck de Young
FR-GB -
GR-IT
JP -

If we do not get five players then GR-IT becomes GR-IT-JP.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

I can manage a fast game if you have slot available.

[cpdeyoung]

Welcome Ironduke1955!

Can we count on your superb skills leading the Axis, either GR-IT or GR-IT-JP depending on the number of job seekers?

You would be a great leader for the "darker" side.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

The Axis would be fine if no one else has aspirations for playing the evil empires. Anyone of the bad boys will do.

[cpdeyoung]

USA-China - gwgardner.
USSR - cpdeyoung
FR-GB -
GR-IT - ironduke1955
JP -

Where we stand now.

Chuck

[LJBurstyn]

I willing to join...Japan.

[cpdeyoung]

USA-China - gwgardner.
USSR - cpdeyoung
FR-GB -
GR-IT - ironduke1955
JP - LJBurstyn

Where we stand now.

Chuck

[Bombur]

Is there a place to me?

[Twotribes]

France and Britain are still open as far as I can see.

[cpdeyoung]

Certainly Bombur,

We will all be in the western hemisphere and should be able to do the rapid game we all seek.

USA-China - gwgardner.
USSR - cpdeyoung
FR-GB - Bombur
GR-IT - ironduke1955
JP - LJBurstyn

Where we stand now.

Tom, could you start us off?

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

Ok will do

Will need Gary's e-mail address to invite to Dropbox, if he could PM me.

[LJBurstyn]

Well, don't like China and USA played by same person as it skew the USA entry into the war on China's side. In the real world USA had no real interest in saving China (at least not to the point of embargoing and actual aid to China much less troops). The USA did not embargo Japan until AFTER Japan took over French Indochina.

[ironduke1955]

Then we will need a Chinese player I am a bit slow kicking off this game I apologize for that, all four of my ATG games produced a turn to play this morning I won't rush them as that will not do justice to my opponents.

[cpdeyoung]

@Larry

Very little chance of finding a player of quality who wants to play China by itself. Japan has a victory condition that involves defeating China and taking Vladivostok, so you are going to draw the attention of the USA, and others, if you push China as you are doing in Game 21.

The USA normally opposes Japan not because of an affection for China, but because defeating Japan is a commonly chosen victory condition of the USA.

If :
1. Gary is willing to command only the USA. (He did pick first.)
2. Some experienced player wants China, and can adhere to the "fast game" requirement.
3. Everyone agrees.
Then :
A sixth player can play China.

I suspect Japan will find China has friends even if China is played by a stand-alone player.

If you are an experienced player, willing to take on the experienced Sino-slaughterer LJBurstyn, then please indicate your desire, and if everyone agrees to the change we will welcome you into the game. Please remember the "fast game" criteria as with a sixth player we will have to all work hard to keep the speed up.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

If it sweetens the pot and no one wants to play China, the Germans and Italians are available for those who prefer Goose rather than baby steps.

So we are looking for a Chinese player or a Germany/Italy player both these national groupings are available, once one of them is filled we are good to go.

[Bombur]

Maybe we should go back to the original plan (USA and China played by the same player)
Maybe add a house rule, USA player can ally with China, but cannot DOW Japan unless Japan DOW a third country.
It would allow the USA to help China with waepons, but won´t bring USA automattically at war with Japan.

[cpdeyoung]

I would think that Larry would have more problems with "weapons". He does not even want the USA to embargo Japan.

He wrote :

at least not to the point of embargoing and actual aid to China much less troops

I think any USA player whose victory condition is "Japan First" should be able to do whatever a sovereign nation might once isolationism is breached. Once again I offer my opinion that it is not the desire to help China, but the desire to take fire and steel to a nation your government has determined is your highest priority war aim.

I can imagine a scenario where the USA must watch Japan take all of China, and Mongolia, and build up for a strike against Vladivostok, while this house rule prevents them from fighting Japan, even when their victory condition calls for war on Japan.

No Japanese player is going to love fighting the USA, but it is often in the cards for them - no matter who plays China.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

Its just the inescapable fact that if one player is both China and the USA it makes a mockery of the victory conditions system, the USA can with ease assist China to obtain its relatively modest victory objectives. In other games I have seen the USA attack China to prevent them from obtaining their victory conditions. So as Larry points out you do need two separate players, You could argue that Italy and Germany should be played independently as well but if the same player is playing France and Great Britain that evens itself out.

[cpdeyoung]

I have no problem with China having an independent player.

If both the USA and China are played by a single player I have no problem with invalidating the Chinese victory conditions.

Please let the independent players of China step forward so we can begin.

Chuck