EF next why not France/Poland 39-40?

[tiger111]

I gather the next project is War in the East 2, but I thought France`40 and Poland `39 were next?
I suppose there`s a lot of research into OOB`s for those campaigns. But is there an intention to visit them after WITE2?

Thankyou.

PS Loving Op Torch and especially the 4th Supreme Cmd scenario (reason why I bought the expansion)

[zakblood]

must admit 4th Supreme Command is one of my favourites to test as well, on a personnel note, i'd like Arnhem doing, the whole battle, so i'd like that on the wish list as no one as really done it justice and i'm 100% sure this engine and game and team could, a great battle by the way...

[whoofe]

ORIGINAL: zakblood

must admit 4th Supreme Command is one of my favourites to test as well, on a personnel note, i'd like Arnhem doing, the whole battle, so i'd like that on the wish list as no one as really done it justice and i'm 100% sure this engine and game and team could, a great battle by the way...

well since it was a 10 or 11 day battle, in this game it would be a turn and a half

[Joel Billings]

The main issue with the 39 and 40 campaigns is that they are very short. We considered a Blitz game that would run from Sept 39 through 1940, but there could be a lot of boring turns in there. To do the Western Front justice in 1940, we'd need to add a more detailed naval model in order to simulate Norway, a possible Sea Lion and the operations in the Med. We decided there would be more interest in bringing the new WitW rules to WitE than there would be in 1940. It's hard to say what will happen down the road after WitE2.

[jacktimes2]

I am crossing my fingers for a WitW 40-42 game featuring a naval system along the lines of this awesome air warfare setup you guys have created. Also looking forward to WitE 2.0, of course. Still enjoying the original, but I can't wait for the new Ostland logistics game

[Rongor]

Only to make sure my name is also on the list: Yes, I would like the see the German advances in Europe 1939-1941 covered by the game (Addon like Torch I probably). Would also be happy to throw money at the devs for such a release.

[tm1]

Hi Mr billings
I understand and agree that a naval model for mainland Europe for 39-40 would be better suited but for The Med theatre you already have the Torch scenario with abstracted naval
play so I cant see the difference in making a campaign in North Africa start from June 1940 going through to May 1943 and also including the German Invasion of the Balkans.

Also as a side note for main land Europe if you did make the naval side abstracted could you not just give The Axis the same Amphibious abilities as the Western Allies have in the current WITW structure
E.G. Amphip HQ's etc as for Op Sealion the Germans had a detailed plan including Order of battle and command structure which can be found in a lot of books these days.

I understand that making games is very slow process which takes time and im grateful to all who put the effort in to produce these great games and dont get me wrong I too like many here are looking forward to WITE2
cheers
Regards TM1

[zakblood]

ORIGINAL: whoofe

ORIGINAL: zakblood

must admit 4th Supreme Command is one of my favourites to test as well, on a personnel note, i'd like Arnhem doing, the whole battle, so i'd like that on the wish list as no one as really done it justice and i'm 100% sure this engine and game and team could, a great battle by the way...

well since it was a 10 or 11 day battle, in this game it would be a turn and a half

yes that would be a limiting factor unless it could be altered in some way, it's just that it has a good plan and could have worked if done differently so doesn't have to follow history and could be a what if type one, so lasted longer, better drops etc, with the same troops and numbers, imo it could work[;)]

[ultradave]

I sort of did that (Market Garden differently) in my game as Allies starting at D-Day. I used a combined amphibious and airborne invasion of Holland and kept one Abn division in reserve in England for a drop on Arnhem to take the crossing there. Worked great. I brought an entire Army ashore across the beaches and 6 Abn divisions (another Army), most of which were put to work clearing northern Holland and all the way to Hamburg.

My version of Market Garden. I love that the game has the flexibility to try something different like this.

You could probably modify the scenario that starts with Market Garden to start there with different choices. I've not tried any scenario mods myself so I might be talking out my ____ but I think that's possible from reading other posts.

[zakblood]

you make it, i'll test and play it[:D][;)]

[Seminole]

Yes, I would like the see the German advances in Europe 1939-1941 covered by the game

Because Allied players will have the advantage of hindsight, I think that would be a tough game as the Germans. The Allies will know better than to stick their head in Manstein/Guderian's noose, and from there on you have a very different war...

[Rongor]

You could rule out most of wargaming on a strategic scale with this argument. Probably WITE wouldn't happen at all for example.
I think having a different war, as you put it, is exactly what we guys here are attracting by. After all, these games would be very boring if we had nothing else to do but watching a storyline we already know everything about.

[Seminole]

You could rule out most of wargaming on a strategic scale with this argument. Probably WITE wouldn't happen at all for example.

I see a lot more strategic balance in a campaign that was waged over 4 years versus 5 weeks (Fall Gelb + Fall Rot).

It's hard for me to even picture what kind of 'gimmicks' (frozen units, etc.) you'd have to hamstring the Allies with to give the Germans a chance with this game engine to match their early war performances.

I think having a different war, as you put it, is exactly what we guys here are attracting by. After all, these games would be very boring if we had nothing else to do but watching a storyline we already know everything about.

My point is that creating a balanced, enjoyable game strikes me as difficult given how much went in the German's favor before July 1940 to create a still ultimately lopsided strategic situation. It works a bit better starting them nearer their high water mark.

I wouldn't mind seeing it, I just have a hard time envisioning the Germans get very far starting in '39 versus an opponent that can readily avoid the most obvious disasters of the Allied armies. If anyone can its this crew.

[jacktimes2]

I tend to agree. I'm personally uninterested in anything before June of 1940. That strikes me as more appropriate to a game at the tactical, not operational level. I'd much prefer WitW 40-42 with an in-depth naval warfare system than a 4 turn invasion of Poland followed by The Phoney War.

[Rosseau]

Well, Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris does do France '40 justice (imo). I assume UltraDave's Market Garden is not a modded scenario, but just what he decided to do [:)]

[jacktimes2]

Well said, and I'm a fan of their work, but your Decisive Campaigns example actually supports my point. There you have a different engine, one designed around 1-2 day turns, according to the product description. That translates into a 15-30+ turn scenario. I am certain the WitW engine is hard-coded to weekly turns. Therefore, the only way to lengthen the scenario beyond 4-5 turns would be to fudge the timeline of Fall Weiss, something too ahistorical for my tastes.

[Rongor]

While I agree that Poland might be too little of a challenge, I see great stuff coming with a Weserübung and Seelöwe (after they let some naval tools out of their wizardry box) and also Fall Gelb and Fall Rot since exactly because the Allied player me be prepared to defend France so much better will bring a genuine excitement to play this out again. Maybe most of these won't be scenarios of great length. That doesn't mean they provide less fun.
I like the scenarios with only a few turns. They are my first choice when I am up to learn ore review some game mechanics anew. There is a lot of pay off in the smaller scenarios when experimenting with stuff.
I guess I am not the only one who tries Husky over and over again.[;)]

[jacktimes2]

Good points. April of 1940 would work well as a start date, I think.

[RJL5188]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The main issue with the 39 and 40 campaigns is that they are very short. We considered a Blitz game that would run from Sept 39 through 1940, but there could be a lot of boring turns in there. To do the Western Front justice in 1940, we'd need to add a more detailed naval model in order to simulate Norway, a possible Sea Lion and the operations in the Med. We decided there would be more interest in bringing the new WitW rules to WitE than there would be in 1940. It's hard to say what will happen down the road after WitE2.

Is it possible to create a few scenarios then? A Polish Campaign, a Norway campaign, a France campaign, and maybe an early Desert campaign which include the Italian invasion, Operation Compass, and also the Greco-Italian War? After completing these scenarios, they could lead into War in the East, then back to War in the West for Operation Torch and so on?

[RedLancer]

ORIGINAL: rjl518

Is it possible to create a few scenarios then? A Polish Campaign, a Norway campaign, a France campaign, and maybe an early Desert campaign which include the Italian invasion, Operation Compass, and also the Greco-Italian War? After completing these scenarios, they could lead into War in the East, then back to War in the West for Operation Torch and so on?

Creating them is quite possible using the editor. The sticking point is someone with the time and dedication to do so as Trey, Randy and I are busy in the East.