A tale of HI for Japan

[Numdydar]

For those that think with enough Oil/Fuel/Resources Japan can do it all, I want to show you how far off that thinking is.

This is against the Allied AI in Scenario 1 on Hard/VH. As a result of the AI behaving badly, I have overrun both China AND Oz [X(]. So all those factories are now producing for the glory of the Empire. So Japan should be awash in HI correct? Sadly no.

On January, 1, 1944 I had over 390K of HI saved up. Between then and 5/1 I am now down to just over 6K HI after the pilot deduction [:o] What on earth happened? The same thing that always happens to Japan, tough choices. Fuel for ships, fuel for HI.

I needed fuel for operations in the SoPac and to slow the Allied advance through the Marshals. So I had to divert fuel from Japan to these areas. And it takes a loooong time to get fuel from the DEI to Normea and points East. Except for my CV TFs and a single BB fleet, the majority of my combat navy is in port. And since the Allies decided to bet the farm on the Marshalls, I now need fuel at Turk [:(] So somewhere I have to divert another fuel fleet to that area.

It is not like I do not have enough fuel on the map. Singapore alone has 1.3M fuel on hand. It is just an issue of Japan no having enough TKs around to transport the stuff. Especially TKs that go at least 14 knts +

So to everyone that thinks if Japan just does X, they can last the distance are really just dreaming. Is this a realistic game? Of course not, but I am pushing Japan's military operations to see what happens in the long run to see what would happen, and it is not looking pretty [:(]

Future Plans?

My ops in the SoPac are almost done so stopping those will help some. I'll have to see how long I can have my fleets sit in port. My feeling even against the AI, the answer is not long.

I have got every TK going to Japan and/or a drop off point to Japan (Hong Kong, Sinapore, Saigon, and Davao. So we will have to see if this will be enough to pull the economy back up again. I have my doubts.

[JocMeister]

Doesn´t Jap players usually aim to save up a couple of millions of HI by 44?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Doesn´t Jap players usually aim to save up a couple of millions of HI by 44?

That's the common gospel, but not all of us think it's correct . That said, I do have a few million in my game, but it's not my biggest economic concern. The longer you can keep your factories from being bombed, the smaller HI stockpile you need.

I have a game against the AI as Japan that is somewhere in November 1943, and it's not high on HI either (I think less than 1M; it was my learning game). But the supplies and fuel from the conquered territory amounted to a fair haul.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Doesn´t Jap players usually aim to save up a couple of millions of HI by 44?

I never did that either. Even in my PBEM games. Production in the early years means a lot more than in '44. I want the biggest bang for as long as I can as I know producing stuff in '44 is not going to buy me a whole lot [:(]

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Doesn´t Jap players usually aim to save up a couple of millions of HI by 44?

I never did that either. Even in my PBEM games. Production in the early years means a lot more than in '44. I want the biggest bang for as long as I can as I know producing stuff in '44 is not going to buy me a whole lot [:(]

Where is the big HI eater ? Armaments or engs/planes ?

The ships you can build are fixed, you can only accelerate or stop building. When Yamato / Musashi are completed (or you choose to NOT further build them which would save a lot of points) ship building should not have that big impact on economy anymore. We do not get any more BBs or CAs. Only some smaller CVs iirc.

[Numdydar]

Planes and engines of course [:)]

Of course I have been able to keep my pilot pool moving. My 5/44 cost in HI was almost 70k. This is scenario 1 too. I'd hate to think about what the cost would be in Scenario 2 with this level of expansion [X(]. I would guess over 100K.

As I have over 10K of ship points saved, I'm going to turn them off and see if that helps.

[Uncivil Engineer]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Planes and engines of course [:)]

Of course I have been able to keep my pilot pool moving. My 5/44 cost in HI was almost 70k. This is scenario 1 too. I'd hate to think about what the cost would be in Scenario 2 with this level of expansion [X(]. I would guess over 100K.

As I have over 10K of ship points saved, I'm going to turn them off and see if that helps.

I'm playing DBB-B (Scen 28) as Japan vs. AI. I maintain 10k vehicle points, 10k NSY points, and 10k MSY points; if above those levels I reduce output to build HI. I'm in August 42 and have over 500 engines for Ha-31, Ha-32, Ha-33, Ha-34, and Ha-35. The only other engine in production is the Aichi Ha-60, which is building toward 500 as it's not being used in any planes yet. Engine production is reduced as long as about 525 are in inventory. I also have target inventory levels for each plane type; when enough are stocked their production is reduced or off.

I also have tens of xAK's halted with 1 day left, mostly short haul, inefficient types.

I'm currently adding about 6500 HI per day, and should reach 2 million by the end of 1942.

Getting oil back to Japan is already a problem, and I've lost only a few tankers.

FWIW

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Planes and engines of course [:)]

Of course I have been able to keep my pilot pool moving. My 5/44 cost in HI was almost 70k. This is scenario 1 too. I'd hate to think about what the cost would be in Scenario 2 with this level of expansion [X(]. I would guess over 100K.

As I have over 10K of ship points saved, I'm going to turn them off and see if that helps.

I'm playing DBB-B (Scen 28) as Japan vs. AI. I maintain 10k vehicle points, 10k NSY points, and 10k MSY points; if above those levels I reduce output to build HI. I'm in August 42 and have over 500 engines for Ha-31, Ha-32, Ha-33, Ha-34, and Ha-35. The only other engine in production is the Aichi Ha-60, which is building toward 500 as it's not being used in any planes yet. Engine production is reduced as long as about 525 are in inventory. I also have target inventory levels for each plane type; when enough are stocked their production is reduced or off.

I also have tens of xAK's halted with 1 day left, mostly short haul, inefficient types.

I'm currently adding about 6500 HI per day, and should reach 2 million by the end of 1942.

Getting oil back to Japan is already a problem, and I've lost only a few tankers.

FWIW

Basically I do the same late May 42 ("light babes mod")... I do not see the point to build huge stockpiles of eg. arma or veh or Merch points. I switch OFF these facs if the stockpile gets too high. I have 40000 arm points, this should be enough to rebuild damaged units (I do care more about troops tho, I try not to waste them in useless attack, trade time for losses etc.)

I wonder how the figure of 2 Mils of HI that Japan needs is figured out (I read that severall times). It seems supply might be a bigger issue than HI.

I also halted a lot of standard AKs, but then noted they can be converted to TKs and switched them on again. Now my merch stock is zero. No big deal imo. Some ships will be delayed maybe... as long the nav points are plenty to build ASW and CVs. I plan to use Yamato ruthless tho, to see what it can do. As long the Allies have no effective land based anti shipping air, she should fare better than in reality. And Brits carriers are not that dangerous, so I will use it in India / Ceylon.

I believe my points stocks are quite tiny compared to what I read from others. But everything gets build what I want...1000 Nav points, 0 Merch points, 40000 arm, 2000 veh. I only build a pile of Ha34 + 35 engs because most planes use them, also the ones which might be researched (Tojo, Helen2, Zero etc.). Other planes are too far away or not that important to build eng stocks for them (Judy, Jill, Betty, Frank etc.). Eg. if NO Judy fac is repaired, you do not need to build that 500 stock, it has NULL effect. The eng bonus does only apply to repaired facs (right?)

Edit, as soon they come online I will try to stock over 500 HA45 engs however, as severall important planes use these..

[GetAssista]

if NO Judy fac is repaired, you do not need to build that 500 stock, it has NULL effect. The eng bonus does only apply to repaired facs (right?)
Edit, as soon they come online I will try to stock over 500 HA45 engs however, as severall important planes use these..

Right, the bonus only adds to existing research. But don't forget that each point of bonus research costs 1 engine from the pool. This can eat up your markup over 500 very quickly if you have several factories researching with the bonus (X factories = minus X engines each turn) and build planes at the same time. So it looks logical to build your engine pool considerably higher than 500, keeping in mind both bonus costs and the total expected plane build out later. And then maybe switch engine factories to more modern late war engines.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
But don't forget that each point of bonus research costs 1 engine from the pool.

Thanks for the reminder, so a safety margin should be applied. Well its no catastrophe if you get no bonus for 1 or 2 turns, at least for me. I have 700.000 HI now, I am thinking even to switch some HI off to save raw materials. But I think too much it seems, better do and play [;)] Otherwise I will never reach 1943....[:-] Or take more risks and lose every carrier and 10 divs, so can switch to defense right now (would take less play time and less planning)

[geofflambert]

Building more engines than you need right now can be a good investment as long as it's one that you will use come what may. You can always modulate by shutting the factory down for awhile.

[Numdydar]

As an update, turning off the naval yards did the trick for me. My HI points are slowly building again [&o]. Once I get a few more tanker loads back to the HI, I'll be able to turn them back on again.

[Lokasenna]

There isn't much point in stocking up on NavSY and MerSY points. If you don't use them early, all you're doing late is building free points for the Allies (or so I hear, and so I imagine).

I've kept my NavSY pumping ships out at maximum capacity through late '43 so far. Once my final CVs arrive, I will probably begin turning yards off as we're talking about 572 points to accelerate 1 Shinano and 3 Unryus... I won't use all of that to build out some subs or accelerate DDs or what-have-you. That's still only going to be about +1K HI per turn, though. For reference, my naval shipyard production is north of 1600. Against the AI, I went all the way up into the 1800s.

[wegman58]

Never trying the Imperial side I'm asking of ignorance here.

Do your pools of HI, Armament points, engines, etc. vulnerable to strategic bombing? If NOT it would seem sensible (again, I'm not aware of anything here) to build up the pools while the factories are intact rather than rely on factories that can be bombed later in the game.

OR am I missing something?

[Numdydar]

No. However the industry that make the points and supply (HI, LI) are easily targeted. Also the factories themselves (Air, R&D, etc.) can also be bombed. So one of the major efforts of Japan is to keep B-29s far far away from the HI [:)]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: wegman58

Never trying the Imperial side I'm asking of ignorance here.

Do your pools of HI, Armament points, engines, etc. vulnerable to strategic bombing? If NOT it would seem sensible (again, I'm not aware of anything here) to build up the pools while the factories are intact rather than rely on factories that can be bombed later in the game.

OR am I missing something?

That's correct, but it's an act of juggling and you have to balance present vs. future as well.